[Buck Wolter]

http://www.linksmagazine.com/golf_courses/the-top-10-female-golf-course-architects


Some familiar to me and some not --seems like Jan Beljan should have a bit more notoriety. I wonder what Marion Hollins would have done with more opportunity.

[Adam Lawrence]

As soon as you put the signature people in there it becomes worthless. Full time touring pros don't design golf courses

[Buck Wolter]

As soon as you put the signature people in there it becomes worthless. Full time touring pros don't design golf courses

Nobody on that list is still a full-time touring pro are they?

[Garland Bayley]

As soon as you put the signature people in there it becomes worthless. Full time touring pros don't design golf courses

Nobody on that list is still a full-time touring pro are they?

Stephenson was playing the ladies senior tour full time (all their events) last time I paid any attention.
But, I think the point is the tour ladies do not do the whole thing like Tom or Jeff or etc. Essentially they just consult.

[Ian Andrew]

I like the idea.
Not completely convinced they included everyone they should have.
But I know I couldn't have done justice to this list either.

Other architects of note:

Kristine Kerr
Vicki Martz
Cynthia Dye McGarey
Sara Mess
Lyne Morrison

[Adam Lawrence]

As soon as you put the signature people in there it becomes worthless. Full time touring pros don't design golf courses

Nobody on that list is still a full-time touring pro are they?

You're right. I'll rephrase. Annika Sorenstam, Jan Stephenson, Amy Alcott and Nancy Lopez are not golf course architects. Hollins and Gourlay are both a stretch too.

[Lyne Morrison]

Good to see the topic raised however both unfortunate and disappointing that the focus is primarily on consulting professional golfers.

The list largely overlooks those practicing female architects who continue to put in the hard yards and who are doing the real work from project inception through to play. Thanks to Ian Andrew for acknowledging these women.

Lyne

[Bill_McBride]

Good to see the topic raised however both unfortunate and disappointing that the focus is primarily on consulting professional golfers.

The list largely overlooks those practicing female architects who continue to put in the hard yards and who are doing the real work from project inception through to play. Thanks to Ian Andrew for acknowledging these women.

Lyne

When I read this article my immediate thought (after initial revulsion) was, where are our contemporary female architects like you?  This is like saying Fred Couples is a golf architect!    Silly stuff. 

[John Cowden]

Hollins and Gourlay.  As with equipment, course and player comparisons, consider the context.  From what I know about Miss Hollins, she likely would have kicked a lot of GCA ass were she in the business today rather than building courses in the 1920s.  She was a natural in course design, as she was in so many other areas.  I would have loved to have known of her in her era.

[Ally Mcintosh]

A few other professional golf course architects working at present:

Kirsten Brown
Virginia Costa
Kari Haug
Ying Kang

I presume Angela Moser too?

[Lyne Morrison]

Thanks Ally.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Good to see the topic raised however both unfortunate and disappointing that the focus is primarily on consulting professional golfers.

The list largely overlooks those practicing female architects who continue to put in the hard yards and who are doing the real work from project inception through to play. Thanks to Ian Andrew for acknowledging these women.

Lyne

With the writing skills of some of the women on just this board, an article for Adam might describe how real architects work, and with a special look at the problems current females might have in this industry.  I will email Jan and see if I can task her with that one, too!

Or maybe Adam can just collect the info with some gentle editing on his part. It would make a fascinating subject.

[Angela Moser]

Thanks for getting mentioned 

[Buck Wolter]

Good to see the topic raised however both unfortunate and disappointing that the focus is primarily on consulting professional golfers.

The list largely overlooks those practicing female architects who continue to put in the hard yards and who are doing the real work from project inception through to play. Thanks to Ian Andrew for acknowledging these women.

Lyne

I don't presume to know how involved each of these women is in actual design but Stephenson and Sorenstam don't look to be 'consultants'. The article says Stephenson interned with Pete Dye before going out on her own (hard to imagine a PGA tour member taking an internship to learn the business) and Annika has an active design business which IIRC was started about when the bottom fell out of the market but has several courses to her credit and in development. Hopefully Annika is helping women architects get some work/experience.

On the consulting side I would rather have an LPGA player give advice about course design than most PGA players. Their game is much more relevant to 99% of the people who will be playing a course.

Buck

[Ian Andrew]

A few other professional golf course architects working at present:

Kirsten Brown
Virginia Costa
Kari Haug
Ying Kang

I presume Angela Moser too?

That's why I said I could begin to do this subject justice.
I'm embarrassed by who I didn't mention on my quick reply.
Sorry to the ladies I missed.

[Adam Lawrence]

Buck - I believe there are three 'Annika' courses in play. One is at Mission Hils in China and will have been done, in a hurry, by Schmidt Curley. They built six courses in a year on that project: I guarantee Annika's involvement amounted to banking the cheque. I don't know who did the other two. She is involved with a new project in Estonia - that will be designed by one of European Golf Design's four (male) architects.

Let me ask you a question. What skills might a touring pro have acquired that qualifies him or her to be a golf architect? Remember, most signature projects are big money resorts or housing deals - there isn't the money to pay the signature fee on anything else. Those projects rarely have pristine land, they need earthmoving. Golf courses are designed by golf course architects. It's possible for a pro to become a GCA, but it happens _very_ infrequently

[Buck Wolter]

Adam-
Just so I understand the distinction --do you consider Jack, Arnie, Gary and Ben Architects, Designers, consultants --something else?


I tried to find something about Jan Stephenson's design philosophy but there wasn't much --I did find this quote interesting from her infamous Golf magazine interview.

What's the worst sexual discrimination you've faced?
Trying to break into golf course design. I try not to take it personally, but I'm very emotional and it breaks my heart. You and every other man who has played my new course in Florida, Walkabout Golf and Country Club, love it. All I ask is, "Give me a chance. Look at my credentials. See what I can do and see what I have done."

[Garland Bayley]

...
On the consulting side I would rather have an LPGA player give advice about course design than most PGA players. Their game is much more relevant to 99% of the people who will be playing a course.

Buck

Keep those LPGA players and their ability to stripe it up the narrowest fairways away from designing any courses I play please.
I want a woman that plays as least as bad as Alister MacKenzie doing the work.

[Adam Lawrence]

Adam-
Just so I understand the distinction --do you consider Jack, Arnie, Gary and Ben Architects, Designers, consultants --something else?

Case by case, but primarily brands. It depends what they are capable of. Nicklaus as many on here know is very hands on when working on a JN Signature project, but as I understand it he does not route his own courses -- one of his guys does that. So he doesn't do the most important part of the project. Crenshaw, well he's done at least one course entirely on his own hasn't he? Palmer, well, consider the famous story of the Tralee opening day when he had to ask where the first tee was.

Flying into the site a couple of times, sweet-talking the local press and having your photo taken with a set of plans doesn't make you a golf architect, even if you place a few bunkers on those trips. Being able to route a good course, supervise construction and understand the engineering makes you a golf architect.

[Tom_Doak]

I'm interested to hear what Lyne and Angela have to say about Jan Stephenson and the other professionals being on the list.

There are certainly at least a couple more architects internationally who should have been on the list, as Ian mentioned.

[Lyne Morrison]

Tom,

Jan Stephenson has expressed an interest in golf course design for some years however I am not clear on her specific input into the projects she has been involved with.

Jan recently approached the Society of Australian Golf Course Architects (SAGCA) seeking membership. We have since requested that she provide relevant detail to support her bid.

When it comes to the contribution of pro golfers to golf course design my view aligns in the main with those expressed by Adam Lawrence.

Cheers

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