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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Who's going to get fired?
« on: March 05, 2015, 05:29:03 PM »
JB Holmes shoots 62 at Doral.
 ;D ;D
Course looks good-sure there's a lot of water but most is used strategically and can be played away from
Tee shot on 10 is a bit silly for average golfers from any tee, but otherwise is pretty playable.
Maybe I simply know the course better but just doesn't seem as repetitive as PGA National, though 4 and 9 are beginning to merge together ;)
Not as much flanking in play water as PGA national where it seems to jump out at every stray shot.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 05:37:29 PM »
Jeff,
Jason Day hit four balls in the water!  He might beg to differ with you 😉

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 05:42:41 PM »
Jeff,
Jason Day hit four balls in the water!  He might beg to differ with you 😉

ian Poulter hit 5 in last week from the lead so Doral is 20% easier ;D ;D ;D

19% of tee shots end up in a bunker-highest on tour
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 05:46:06 PM »
Jeff,
I guess Gil's crutch must be then be bunkers 😉

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 05:49:59 PM »
Jeff,
I guess Gil's crutch must be then be bunkers 😉

The baby Blue monster? (Blue and white mixed)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 06:19:01 PM »
Jeff,
I guess Gil's crutch must be then be bunkers 😉

Especially considering how closely Doral resembles all of Gil's other original designs......
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 06:55:45 PM »
Don't worry Joe, I love Gil.  He has been a mentor for 12 years since back when I got into this business and has supported me ever since.  I was being facetious 😊 

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2015, 08:12:43 PM »
Me too, Mark. I just suffer from emoticonaphobia. I only use smiley faces when I am intentionally trying to offend someone who will not sense that if I use a smiley.....(Emoticon omitted)

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

John Cowden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2015, 08:21:14 PM »
Emoticons, the e-correspondent's crutch.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2015, 12:30:52 AM »
18 had Bubba Watson so twisted up that his drive double cross is one of the scariest things I have seen in golf. Not sure how many feet the ball cleared the gallery by but it wasn't much. Not meaning to thread jack.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2015, 01:04:18 AM »
18 had Bubba Watson so twisted up that his drive double cross is one of the scariest things I have seen in golf. Not sure how many feet the ball cleared the gallery by but it wasn't much. Not meaning to thread jack.

Quite a brush-back.

https://vine.co/v/O0VIApLaX33
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2015, 08:08:24 AM »
Why should someone be fired.  One of the biggest problems in golf is trying to build a course that keeps someone from shooting 62 and at the same time becomes unplayable for so many...let the guy shoot 59....who cares...I like watching it...we always hear the myth spouted that " we set the course up whereby we could determine a champion"  that's not the PGA tour.  The PGA tour is entertainment and maybe the "determine champion" line applies to a few events each year...IMHO
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2015, 08:19:34 AM »
Why should someone be fired.  One of the biggest problems in golf is trying to build a course that keeps someone from shooting 62 and at the same time becomes unplayable for so many...let the guy shoot 59....who cares...I like watching it...we always hear the myth spouted that " we set the course up whereby we could determine a champion"  that's not the PGA tour.  The PGA tour is entertainment and maybe the "determine champion" line applies to a few events each year...IMHO

Nobody should-but you can bet the Donald is irritated. ;) ;D
These guys are good
Scores weren't that low overall.
Great round by JB Holmes.
I've always liked watching Doral.
What I like about it is they haven't taken driver out of their hands like so many courses, especially majors not named Augusta, have.
12 was downwind and JB and Bubba hit 6 and 7 iron on their second shots!!!! I often hit that for my third shot when I worked there
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2015, 11:14:59 AM »
This just in.
Evidently Trump livid at PGA Tour officials for the setup.
Wouldn't expect anything less from golf's most unenlightened ::) ::)

68 is third-enough said.
The course played plenty hard.

Now they're showing shots played downwind from the fairway that don't hold the green and claiming it might be "unfair"

My take-it's difficult for the pros, and they may have to make some choices they're not used to, and JB Holmes round was incredibly good. ;D ;D
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2015, 11:34:10 AM »
JB Holmes shoots 62 at Doral.
 ;D ;D
Course looks good-sure there's a lot of water but most is used strategically and can be played away from
Tee shot on 10 is a bit silly for average golfers from any tee, but otherwise is pretty playable.
Maybe I simply know the course better but just doesn't seem as repetitive as PGA National, though 4 and 9 are beginning to merge together ;)
Not as much flanking in play water as PGA national where it seems to jump out at every stray shot.

Jeff,

Honest question, what makes this weeks course different than PGA National?  To me it still seems like a ton of water flanking on many many holes, peninsula par 3s, etc. 

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2015, 11:53:06 AM »
JB Holmes shoots 62 at Doral.
 ;D ;D
Course looks good-sure there's a lot of water but most is used strategically and can be played away from
Tee shot on 10 is a bit silly for average golfers from any tee, but otherwise is pretty playable.
Maybe I simply know the course better but just doesn't seem as repetitive as PGA National, though 4 and 9 are beginning to merge together ;)
Not as much flanking in play water as PGA national where it seems to jump out at every stray shot.

Jeff,

Honest question, what makes this weeks course different than PGA National?  To me it still seems like a ton of water flanking on many many holes, peninsula par 3s, etc. 

Good question
Width-large property with no boundaries on the other side as opposed to much flanking water at PGA natl and OB on other side
Holes with water
1 you can go way left
3 not so much room
4 can go way left-PGA Natl like
7 way left
8 can go way right
9 not so much-very PGA Natl like
10 not so much for an am-shitty change to widen driving range-can play way right on second and third
15 can play way right AND use swale in green
16-water only in play if you try to drive green-short hitters path 50 yards right of water and can go right of that if want
18-really hard but certainly can go way right and not be OB a la PGA Natl and worst end up on  #1 fway
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2015, 11:57:16 AM »

Width-large property with no boundaries on the other side as opposed to much flanking water at PGA natl and OB on other side
Holes with water


This makes total sense, it still seems like they are very similar courses for the amateur to play.  At some point you must challenge the water and it seems like there are even more greens very close to the water at Doral.

Hopefully one day I'll "suffer" through both  ;D to figure it out on my own.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2015, 12:05:21 PM »
I'll offer my own answer to the question Josh posed.

Watching the tournament, PGA National has always felt like a course where the decisions players make are mostly defensive ones. It looks to be a tough test of accuracy, but not so much a test of strategic thinking. There aren't many holes where you're tempted to venture closer to the water than is prudent and most of the water's influence is a result of how closely it encroaches on some pretty narrow playing corridors.

In terms of creating exciting viewing, Doral has always been one of my favorite Tour venues. The tournament is consistently exciting and I think a big reason is the way that it features opportunities for players to attempt risky shots for a clear benefit, along with the fact that the yardages of several holes (12 and 16, for example) are perfect for players with modern technology to try to pick up ground with a spectacular shot. There are certainly times when it gets waterlogged, but the bailouts at Doral are more ample than those at PGA National and the watery holes tend to have more angles in play. Holes like 15 and 17 at PGA National really just test execution and are so stringent that players frequently just try to take the water out of play regardless of what else happens, while a hole like 15 at Doral with a left pin offers a stupid play (go right at the pin), a tempting play (draw it toward the middle of the green and let it release toward the flag), a smart play (center of the green), and a wimp play (bail well right). There are just more options involved.

Part of the reason that 18 turned into a dunkfest yesterday is that players are actually tempted to hug the left side of the fairway to shorten the approach. I saw a lot of "good shots" yesterday that ended up wet because players were overzealous in the line they took. While players sometimes dunk it on 18 at PGA National too, the splashes are relegated only to poorly executed shots. At Doral, we see more shots that are punished for being too bold than shots that are punished because of a crappy swing. I also think the urge to hug the water's edge coupled with the nerves of trying to pull it off is what produces some of the trainwreck swings we get on the 18th tee, like that mess of a swing Bubba Watson made yesterday. Sure it nearly (literally) killed a few spectators, but that's a small price to pay for a rare hole on the Florida swing where players are thinking instead of just aiming down the middle.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2015, 01:35:01 PM »
I agree with everything Jason said. With regards to the line players are taking on 18, Ryan Moore said that his drive was only two yards left of where he wanted it... he ended up in the water.
"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2015, 01:57:17 PM »
I don't care what you think of the concept of "fairness" on a golf course, but that shot that JB Holmes just hit outed the first green as truly unfair. His approach shot to #1 was traveling dead straight, landed on the front left part of the green, kept turning right once it hit the ground, and ended up in the water.

I actually really enjoy watching the guys play this course. But when you hear the players complaining about a couple of things, I'm assuming it's stuff like that. It was truly ridiculous.

Keith Doleshel

Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2015, 02:22:20 PM »
Holmes's ball ending up in the water was a joke.  There is no way a quality shot like that should result in a penalty drop. 

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2015, 02:28:59 PM »
Was it bad luck?  Should JB fire his caddie for letting him make that swing?

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2015, 02:37:24 PM »
He hit a fade from 240 yards to a firm green that slopes left-to-right and that has water pinching in on the right side. I don't know why he'd be shocked that his ball didn't check up.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2015, 04:43:21 PM »
He hit a fade from 240 yards to a firm green that slopes left-to-right and that has water pinching in on the right side. I don't know why he'd be shocked that his ball didn't check up.

Do we know that he hit a fade? I don't think he did. We do know that his ball hit on the left side of the green.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Who's going to get fired?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2015, 04:52:01 PM »
He hit a fade from 240 yards to a firm green that slopes left-to-right and that has water pinching in on the right side. I don't know why he'd be shocked that his ball didn't check up.

Do we know that he hit a fade? I don't think he did. We do know that his ball hit on the left side of the green.

The new #1 is a bit severe-I don't mind the green tilt but having the bunker left seems a bit of overkill and forces a hooking second to not end up wet
Guess I have to add #12 as a hole with water(JB just hit it in there!)-holy cow that's long....and left
Even I was never in there but I didn't sniff the length required I guess ;) ;D

Jason,
You nailed it exactly.
the old Doral was a fun course to watch and play, but modern skill and technolgy rendered much of the strategy useless the last few years.
It's too much for me now but then it wasn't modified for me. ;)
the new Doral has a few mandatory challenges-the front ninepar 3's especially, but much of the time you encounter water only if you choose to challenge it
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

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