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Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #50 on: March 11, 2015, 11:39:51 PM »
Sven,

I was just reading over your previous thread on Saltville.  In post #19, Brian Ross linked an article from Golfdom, December 1931.  After reading Jim's recent post, I realized the article in the previous thread was written by C.H. Whiteman.  Whiteman makes it sound like Saltville only had 3 holes in 1925, 4 holes in 1926, 6 by 1927 and 9 by 1929.

Bret




MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #51 on: March 12, 2015, 09:37:32 AM »
Mike,

First, welcome back.

Second, the 1923 Rock Creek course is described as newly constructed, which raises the question of whether it had any connection to the earlier lay out. 

Sven

Sven & Jim,

Digging deeper today I agree with Jim that the original golf course laid out by Col. Sherrill was indeed built  and initial findings indicate it was very near where the Tennis Center is today, which was originally a reservoir built in the late 1890s, early 1900s by the city Water Dept.   

I'm fairly certain from my readings that the new golf course created in the early 20s was completely north of the original course but will keep digging.   

In the meantime, let me see if this link works to a book about the history of Rock Creek Park.    https://books.google.com/books/about/A_History_of_Rock_Creek_Park.html?id=3fHZAwAAQBAJ
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2015, 10:32:00 AM »
It appears the original golf course at Rock Creek Park was largely south of today's course, although some of the same land at the very south end of today's course may have been used.

The article below describes it as starting just south of the Brighton Reservoir, which is where today's Tennis Center is located, and proceeding north across Military Road, running between Rock Creek and 16th Street.   As it was only 9 holes, it seems unlikely to have gone much further into the land of today's course.

I just purchased a book which I'm hoping includes Olmstead's 1918 plan for Rock Creek Park, so that may shed some more light in a few days.


« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 10:40:26 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2015, 10:52:03 AM »
From "A Historic Resource Study - Rock Creek Park" published by William Bushong in 1990;

To varying degrees early intrusions into the park influenced site
selections for early sports facilities. In 1900 the D. C. Water Department
obtained Congressional authorization for the construction of the Brightwood
Reservoir, located on a site occupied today by the Rock Creek Tennis Stadium,
tennis courts, and ballfields between Morrow Drive and Carter Barron
Theater. The Board of Control opposed this action, but presented with what
appeared to be the inevitable enactment by Congress of legislation
authorizing the siting of the reservoir in the park, they negotiated a land
exchange compromise with the bills' proponents. The Board surrendered use of
parkland to the Water Department in exchange for the citys' purchase of
private land on the eastern boundary of the park. The resulting agreement
gave the Water Department its reservoir and a site it desired and the Board
was able to rectify a section of the boundary along Sixteenth Street. *03

As a result of the installation of the reservoir, this area of the park was
considered an acceptable site for recreational facilities. In 1907 a nine-hole
golfcourse was laid out adjacent to the Brightwood Reservoir. It was hoped
that enthusiasm for the sport would generate the purchase of additional
private acreage adjoining the park on the west side of Sixteenth Street to
expand the course to eighteen holes. 104 a 1909 newspaper account concerning
the potential construction of a clubhouse for the golfcourse indicated that a



117

potential site would be near the intersection of Blagden Avenue and Sixteenth
Street south of the reservoir. I"* A lack of funds evidently stymied these
plans. A nine-hole golfcourse was laid out and grass seed planted, but neither
the course or clubhouse went beyond this initial planning phase. However, the
work of clearing the land was not wasted because in 1916 playing fields, a
large picnic area, shelters, and tennis courts were built adjacent to the
reservoir. By the 1930s the Brightwood Reservoir had become obsolete when
new reservoirs were built in outlying areas of the city near Great Falls. The
Civilian Conservation Corps infilled the reservoir in 1937, but the pattern of
active recreational development in the area has been continued into modern
times.

A notable intrusion to the park's natural character in 1911 was the
establishment of an arboretum for experimental tree planting along Rock
Creek to the north, south and east of Camp Goodwill by the U. S. Forest
Service. A cooperative agreement was reached between the Board and the
Forest Service to allow the federal agency to use the site primarily for
experiments in the hybridization of willow trees. However, by 1914 seventy
species had been introduced into this section of the park representing every
region in the United States. Some of these trees, particularly the California
Redwoods, did not survive. By 1920 2,000 trees of 170 species were being
cultivated in the park. There was a movement in the late 1910s to formalize
this arrangement with the establishment of a permanent arboretum and the
addition of a botanical garden. 106 Th e u. S. Commission of Fine Arts, which
had been requested by Congress to review potential sites for the relocation of
the Mall botanical gardens in 1916, strongly opposed any plan that would use
Rock Creek Park for this purpose. 107 Frederick Law Olmsted, Jr. quoted the
commission's report at length in his 1918 planning study for Rock Creek Park.
He emphasized the point that the establishment of the arboretum in the park
had been a grave mistake that threatened to destroy the natural beauty of the
landscape if it was continued and expanded. In 1920 the experiment was
discontinued. Within a year Colonel Sherrill began planning a new use for the
area and ordered the start of construction of fairways for the Rock Creek golf
course.

During the planning phase for the golf course, former President
Woodrow Wilson wrote Sherrill to lodge a strong objection to its construction
in the park:



118

Is it possible that it is true that a golf course is to be laid out in Rock
Creek Park? I am loath to believe that such an unforgivable piece of
vandalism is even in contemplation, and therefore beg leave to enter
my earnest and emphatic protest. That park is the most beautiful in
the United States, and to mar its natural beauty for the sake of sport
would be to do an irretrievable thing which subsequent criticism and
regret could never repair. 10°

Concerned by the tone of the letter but remaining firm in his belief that the golf
course was an appropriate addition to this section of the park, Sherrill
immediately wrote to request the support from his superior officer, Chief of
Engineers Major General Lansing H. Beach, who had been so instrumental in
Rock Creek Park's early development. The Colonel asked Beach to request a
small appropriation from Congress to begin construction of the golf course. He
feared that any effort to establish the facility without specific authority from
Congress might create "so much hostility among members of Congress as to
jeapardize any future hope of securing funds to make a really first-class golf
course." 10°

Sherrill responded to the former president in an evasive fashion and did
not admit that the plans were already in the works. He diplomatically
explained that the land considered for use in the park as the golf course had
been cleared of trees before its purchase by the government and was
inaccessible to the public. He described the tract as "overgrown with brambles
and poison ivy as to be entirely worthless."* 10 Th e Colonel also assured
Wilson that a "golf course could be so constructed as not to affect the natural
beauty of the tract while its use for this purpose is not apt to mar the
appearance as much as constantly occurs at every picnic ground." 1 1 1 Wilson
was apparently satisified by the response and through his secretary conveyed
his relief regarding the choice of the site for the proposed golf course. 1 12

In October, 1921, the rough outline for the fairways of a nine-hole golf
course were laid out by landscape architect Irving W. Payne under the
authority of Colonel Sherrill.l 13 In January, 1922, Colonel Sherrill requested
and obtained the services of golf course architect William S. Flynn of Ardmore,
Pennsylvania.! 14 Flynn was a leader in the field of golf course design at this
time and today is considered an American master of golf course architecture.
His masterpiece was the revision of the course at Shinnecock Hills on Long
Island, New York, but his courses at Spring Mill and Rolling Hills, both



119

outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, are also highly regarded. H5 Flynn
worked as a consultant on the design of Rock Creek golf course and spent two
days going over the ground to locate the tees and greens. The final course
design, apparently incorporating Flynn' s verbal suggestions, was prepared by
Payne. The first nine holes of the Rock Creek golf course opened in 1923 with a
remodeled farmhouse as its clubhouse. 1 *" A second nine-hole course was laid
out and opened by 1927. The immediate popularity of the course was reflected
by the fact that more than 75,000 golfers played the course in that year.H?
The facility remains a popular recreational attraction in the park and has been
in continuous operation since 1923.

"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2015, 10:56:45 AM »
Sorry for the multiple posts, but while we're on the subject of Washington DC public golf courses, can anyone determine who designed the original "blacks only" Langston Golf Course in the late 1930s?   That's a mystery I've never been able to solve to date.

The history of East Potomac Park GC is interesting as well, involving Walter Travis, Robert White, and Dr. Walter Harban.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2015, 11:35:04 AM »
Mystery #11 - Saltville's Short

A while back I posted some images of the golf course in Saltville, VA (the thread can be found here:  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57979.0.html).





Sven,

The Golfdom December 1931 article identifies your picture as the 9th green.  The ninth green was a 293 yard Par 4.  Whiteman notes that only three greens were bunkered: the first, second and ninth.  These three holes are all Par 4's.  The Par 3's were not bunkered.

Bret

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2015, 11:46:31 AM »
Mystery #11 - Saltville's Short

A while back I posted some images of the golf course in Saltville, VA (the thread can be found here:  http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57979.0.html).





Sven,

The Golfdom December 1931 article identifies your picture as the 9th green.  The ninth green was a 293 yard Par 4.  Whiteman notes that only three greens were bunkered: the first, second and ninth.  These three holes are all Par 4's.  The Par 3's were not bunkered.

Bret

Bret:

Not sure how I missed the Golfdom article in the first go around, although sometimes the turfweb site seems to go into lockout mode.

Going to chalk this one up to Whiteman.  Would be interesting to know a bit more about his background, particularly if he played golf prior to coming to Saltville.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2015, 11:51:09 AM »
Sorry for the multiple posts, but while we're on the subject of Washington DC public golf courses, can anyone determine who designed the original "blacks only" Langston Golf Course in the late 1930s?   That's a mystery I've never been able to solve to date.

The history of East Potomac Park GC is interesting as well, involving Walter Travis, Robert White, and Dr. Walter Harban.

Mike:

Did Langston have a different name at one point?  Was it a different course from the Lincoln Memorial GC?

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2015, 11:59:42 AM »
Mystery #12 - Marshall and Kenloch

The following Jan. 1917 American Golfer piece notes the beginnings of the Kenloch Club in Libertyville, IL.  Both Macomber and Bendelow are credited with work at Libertyville CC, but the Annual Guides note a date of organization of 1928 for that course.

Was Marshall's course ever built?  The timing would put it smack dab in the middle of the war effected years, where many projects were put on hold due to greater interests.

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2015, 12:52:08 PM »

Mike:

Did Langston have a different name at one point?  Was it a different course from the Lincoln Memorial GC?

Sven


Sven,

Yes and yes.   When it opened in 1939 the newspapers simply called it the "colored course" in Deanwood, along the Anacostia River.   There was a separate Anacostia public golf course that opened in the 30s but was closed by the late 50s, so don't let that one throw you.

For years members of the "Royal Golf Club", who had played at the Lincoln Memorial course petitioned the federal government for either rights to play at the city's public courses or to build one for African Americans.   Around 1934 the feds consented, although it's sketchy after that.   The course was built essentially on a former garbage dump, with 9 opening in 1939 and another nine in the 50s.

It is likely from the combination of this wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langston_Golf_Course and some other materials I found that it was likely designed by a combination of some of the members of Royal along with the Civilian Conservation Corp and WPA engineers.

**EDIT**  Sven, I did find an article indicating the name of the new course was already Langston when it opened on June 11, 1939.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 01:14:53 PM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2015, 01:10:21 PM »
Mystery #13 - Marion's Devonshire Manor

In June of 1928 Golf Illustrated notes plans for the purchase of land including the old Marion GC for the development of a new country club (most likely a real estate play) to be named Devonshire Manor.  Several trade magazines from the time note the ambitious expenditures the endeavor was looking to outlay in its development.

So what happened to Devonshire?  Was it just another victim of the crash?  And did this seal the end of golf on the Marion GC land?





"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2015, 12:19:41 AM »
Sven,

There is a Marion Golf Club still in existence in Marion, MA.  This 9 hole course was the first golf course designed by George Thomas.  Anthony Pioppi has a chapter devoted to it in To The Nines.  Is your article referring to this course or a different course?

Bret

MCirba

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2015, 06:18:07 AM »
Sven,

Bret is correct.

Marion GC by George Thomas is still there and incorporates some very cool and very novel old stone walls.   I played there about three years ago and it's a real relic.

Apparently Devonshire Manor never came to fruition.   
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2015, 08:54:18 AM »
Bret:

Pretty sure the article is referring to the course Thomas worked on, which as you note is still in existence.

A followup question.  The 1904 date attributed to Thomas is several years after golf was first played in Marion.  Was Thomas' work on an existing course, or did he do a new layout on new ground?

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2015, 09:14:22 AM »
Sven,

I don't know the answer to your follow up question.  Maybe Anthony Pioppi can help us out with the answer.

Bret

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2015, 10:10:02 AM »
Let me just say, Sven, it's obvious you have not read To the Nines and that makes me extremely sad.

Second, Mike is correct. It is a very cool relic. It appears that nothing has changed in over 100 years. For a more detailed explanation of the course I suggest reading To the Nines.

Third: history of Marion is still a mystery. I spent a lot of time trying to find the year Marion opened and could not. The land the course is on is part of a trust so any maps I found just showed the entire property but not specifically the golf course. The oldest scorecard I've seen date to 1910.

There is no explanation ever given that I found on why Mr. Bullivant hired Thomas. In Thomas's book Golf Architecture in America he never goes into detail about a single hole on the course.

By the way, you have to drive past Marion to get to Kittansett.


Brad Tufts

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2015, 02:02:15 PM »
Great photo of Marion GC...the top photo is the view from the current 6th tee towards the ocean...5th then 4th holes in view off to the right.

As far as I can tell, the mansion is still there too.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Sven Nilsen

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2015, 03:56:28 PM »
Anthony:

I need to rectify that gap in my library.

Unfortunately, the caddie budget has been limiting those types of extravagancies.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

ANTHONYPIOPPI

Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #68 on: March 13, 2015, 04:14:28 PM »
Sven:

New edition is out in May. We'll see if we can work out something.

Marion's 9th hole from the tee. Copyright Sue Carlson.


Anthony



Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2015, 01:26:47 AM »
Mystery #9 - What happened to this Sacramento club?

A shout out to the west coast.  

This Jan. 1911 Golf Magazine blurb notes the ambitious plans for a new club in Sacramento.  The first iteration of the Sacramento GC was founded in 1900.  The later annual guides give a date of 1913 for the formation of the Sacramento CC (which was later remodeled by Fowler).

Was the course referred to in this article actually the CC, with the earlier GC already having gone out of existence?  Or, as suggested by a 1913 Spalding Official Golf Guide article, did the old course get improved and become the CC?



Sven,

Is it possible your article is talking about Del Paso Country Club, the site of the 2015 U.S. Senior Open?

Here are two links with some more information on Sacramento golf history:

http://www.hagginoaks.com/blog/history-local-sacramento-area-golf-courses/

http://www.delpasocountryclub.com/about-us/history-595.html

Clinton Harber, who is referred to in the Del Paso history, is also listed in the 1917 and 1920 American Annual Golf Guides under Sacramento Country Club. (Chairman-Greens Committee)



Bret



Phil Young

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2015, 02:26:42 AM »
This information concerns courses mentioned on the first page or two. 

It was mentioned that the CC of Farmington was redesigned in the 30's. In September of 1935, during his PGA Course Consultation Tour, Tilly examined the entire course and made various recommendations including new 17th & 18th holes. I don't know if the work was ever done but some I've spoken with believe it was.

Arcola & Willard Wilkinson. Wilkinson was a design associate who worked for Tilly into the early 1920s. When he told Tilly that he was going out on his own, Tilly generously gave him 4 current projects that were Tilly's and that Wilkinson was working on for him including Arcola. Even though Tilly was the original hired name, this is a Wilkinson design.

Jim was correct in his answer to the question regarding which course Tilly was referring to in the article about his draining the swamps to build the course he designed. Jim mentioned that it might have been Davis Islands (he crossed out the word Shores). Tilly did the original designs for both Davis Islands and Davis Shores.

Note the newspaper article below which states that the course "is entirely on land once covered by the waters of Tampa Bay."



Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2015, 12:26:18 PM »
This information concerns courses mentioned on the first page or two. 

Arcola & Willard Wilkinson. Wilkinson was a design associate who worked for Tilly into the early 1920s. When he told Tilly that he was going out on his own, Tilly generously gave him 4 current projects that were Tilly's and that Wilkinson was working on for him including Arcola. Even though Tilly was the original hired name, this is a Wilkinson design.




Phil,

What were the other three courses offered to Willard Wilkinson from Tillinghast?

Why did it take him so long to get to Arcola?  It sounds like Wilkinson left Tillinghast sometime between 1922-1924.  Arcola wasn't built until 1930.

The Architects of Golf claim Willard Wilkinson designed 87 golf courses and remodeled 12.  They only list 15 of his courses!

Cortland Country Club in New York claims that their golf course was the 100th course designed by Wilkinson in 1948.  I'm not sure if this included his work with Tillinghast or not.  He was a member of ASGCA until 1979.  Any idea how many courses were built by Wilkinson?

Bret

Phil Young

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2015, 04:55:49 PM »
Bret,

The only other one that we know by name of the four is Jumping Brook in New Jersey. In fact, if you look under the brief course history written on its website it tells the account of how Tilly turned the commission over to him. It states that Tilly gave him three commissions, but since then I've come across other information that leads me to believe that it was four. At this time the only ones that seem to be attributable to them this way are Arcola and Jumping Brook.

Should we be surprised that we aren't able to name the others? No. Consider what you wrote about the lack of known Wilkinson courses mentioned in the C&W book. Likewise, in 1934 Tilly wrote that he had designed and built several hundred courses during his career to that point, yet today we can't quite identify 100 of them, this despite our discovering two dozen or so new ones in the past decade.

What took so long with Arcola? Beats me... This would make a good research project...

Bret Lawrence

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2015, 10:23:25 PM »
Phil,

Thanks for your answers.  I wasn't sure if I was missing something in regards to Willard Wilkinson that others may know.  I agree it would be a good research project.

I recently found an article in The Hartford Courant-December 11, 1916, that discusses some of Tillinghast's work.  I'm not sure it brings to light any new courses by Tillinghast, but the date may help? 

If you've already seen this, sorry for repeating it.



Bret

Phil Young

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Re: History's Mysteries
« Reply #74 on: March 15, 2015, 11:02:48 PM »
Bret,

Thanks for that newspaper account, one I hadn't seen before. The following week would see accounts in papers in various southern cities as Tilly did more than just the two courses mentioned.

You stated, "I'm not sure it brings to light any new courses by Tillinghast..." Then again it might have! The article states that Tilly had been "invited by Clifford Harmon to take a trip up the Hudson to look over a site for a nine hole links..."

That's the first mention of Harmon's name that I've ever seen and so this might be something previously unknown. Another bit of research to do!  

P.S. - Bret, I did a quick bit of looking into Clifford Harmon. Evidently he was a renowned aviator and real estate tycoon who lived on an estate in Harmon-on Hudson. There are two possibilities. The first is a nine-hole course on his large estate. The other is one that I've been wondering about for quite sometime and that needs more looking into...

Hope to have the answer in a few days.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 12:03:20 AM by Phil Young »