Is anyone else shocked by the

[Patrick_Mucci]

Narrowness and winding nature of the 18th fairway at Riviera ?

What's the purpose of a winding fairway on a blind tee shot ?

I'd be curious to hear what members have to say about how the fairways play from the tee.

Will the course retain those fairway configurations ?

If the fairways were mowed as intended, would it matter if 12 or 18 under won ?

This sends the worst possible message to Green Committees and Boards

[BHoover]

It does seem strange to me why the left side of 18 is not cut at fairway or at worst intermediate height. I think the tee shot would be more exciting and interesting if that left slope was cut at fairway height.

[Michael Whitaker]

I thought you had killed the teaser headlines per Ran's request. Sorry to see you have fallen off the wagon. 

[A.G._Crockett]

It is certainly an odd and unflattering look from an aerial view.  The tee shot didn't seem to play as narrow as the fairway appeared in that view, but I, too, would be curious to hear what the members say.

[jeffwarne]

Narrowness and winding nature of the 18th fairway at Riviera ?

What's the purpose of a winding fairway on a blind tee shot ?

I'd be curious to hear what members have to say about how the fairways play from the tee.

Will the course retain those fairway configurations ?

If the fairways were mowed as intended, would it matter if 12 or 18 under won ?

This sends the worst possible message to Green Committees and Boards

I thought it was just me.
The whole course looks very defined
ick

and yes 18 fairway looks stupid

Has the drought eased in Southern Cal? Riviera has always had nice texture, but this year is very uniform green.
I understand that could simply be recent rain, though the greens seem quite firm.
I also realize it was raining today-didn't get to see today

[Matthew Mollica]

While no doubt started with the best of intentions, and containing posts of good content (including the OP), this thread title is not as clear as it perhaps should be, and seemingly does not comply with Ran's words regarding thread titles from late last year, as posted below.

Now in its sixteenth year, GolfClubAtlas.com needs to be vigilant and steer clear of soft and flabby. Complacency won’t do. We must stay on top of things, mind the details and not deviate from best practices.
 
GolfClubAtlas.com is my hobby and while work, family, and outside interests distract, this web site was always intended to be ‘best of breed.’ Moving forward GolfClubAtlas.com will redouble its efforts to provide the best subject matter relating to golf course architecture.
 
The thread's title needs to be clear regarding what someone can expect when they click on it; people are busy and they should not have to aimlessly click on threads to glean their content.

Pat, could I politely suggest you consider expanding the thread title to provide a clearer indication of the thread content?

Thank you.

Matthew

[Cristian]

+1

Has anybody played the course in non-tournament conditions recently? I wonder how the fairways are mown for everyday play.

[Pete Lavallee]

Christian,

I can't think of a single golf course that changes its mowing lines for a tournament. Do you know of any that do? It is not an easy task.

I thought teaser titles were no longer acceptable, per Ran's direction; does Pat know something I don't?

[John Kavanaugh]

I wish we could celebrate the fact that while most of the country was stuck inside we witnessed a great regular tour event on one of the greatest courses ever built and maintained.

The left side of 18 needs to be rough to keep the bail out shots from rolling down to perfect position. You just can't go right off the tee, but if you do and execute perfectly you have a better angle. 18 played its role perfectly throught the tournament. How bout that stadium seating as a bonus?

[jeffwarne]

Christian,

I can't think of a single golf course that changes its mowing lines for a tournament. Do you know of any that do? It is not an easy task.

I thought teaser titles were no longer acceptable, per Ran's direction; does Pat know something I don't?

Shinnecock
Though having the same grass for fairway and primary rough helps

[Pete Lavallee]

Jeff,

If Shinicock had to do this on a yearly basis do you think they would just throw their hands in the air and keep the tournament width? Torrey North actually cut their fairways 2 yards wider, from 20 to 22 yards at the request of the PGA Tour and that process took months to accomplish.

[Mike Hendren]

I wish we could celebrate the fact that while most of the country was stuck inside we witnessed a great regular tour event on one of the greatest courses ever built and maintained.

The left side of 18 needs to be rough to keep the bail out shots from rolling down to perfect position. You just can't go right off the tee, but if you do and execute perfectly you have a better angle. 18 played its role perfectly throught the tournament. How bout that stadium seating as a bonus?

John, the stadium seating is only a bonus if there's a crowd.  I was stunned by how small the gallery was.

I do appreciate your support for the golf course.  All I can go by is what I see on television, but based upon that Riviera is among a handful of courses I'd really like to see before I hang it up.  Arguably the 18th is as good as finisher as there is in the golf architecture world. And how about two of the leaders bogeying the ostensibly benign par five 17th? 
Bogey

[Kevin_D]

The left side of 18 needs to be rough to keep the bail out shots from rolling down to perfect position. You just can't go right off the tee, but if you do and execute perfectly you have a better angle. 18 played its role perfectly throught the tournament. How bout that stadium seating as a bonus?

From one play, this was my take as well.  If it was all fairway left, it would be an easy (or at least far easier) tee shot, and take away the penalty of bailing out left away from the trees. We can debate about what would be better with fairway left (I like as is), but it strikes me that the tee shot on the hole was meant to be difficult - it is certainly intimidating off the tee, heightened by the blindness.

[John Kavanaugh]

Hahn's longest drive of the tournament was 329 yards. That put him in a tie for 91st. A perfect solution is to drive like an old man and putt like a young one.  

[Terry Lavin]

Bottom line, Riviera again proved its mettle as a host for championship golf.  They found a way to defend against par without completely bastardizing the golf course.  Sure, the fairways were sometimes narrower that what one might want.  Sure, the 10th hole seemed at times gimmicky to an extreme.  And maybe some of the greens got a little too quick.  But there were instances where nobody could read the line of a putt.  The hole location on 12 on Saturday looked absolutely benign.  It wasn't!

I'd really like to see a US Open in Los Angeles.  I haven't played the renovated LACC and can't really offer any kind of an opinion, but it sure seems like Riviera could easily test the pros under US Open conditions.  If some of the infrastructure issues might be a challenge, I'm sure the USGA would be up to the challenge.  And if there's a problem with attendance at the Northern Trust in February, that won't be a problem at a US Open in June.

[David_Tepper]

G. Shackelford's comments on the narrow fairways at Riviera:


Riviera was tough. Major tough. The firm greens almost reached 13 feet on the Stimpmeter after morning mowings. The poa was turning grey. The old girl required intense precision like never before.

Granted, some of the 2015 Northern Trust Open difficulty came from contrived elements. The fairway widths were down to nothing, with a few laugh-out-loud-to the naked eye landing areas (1, 3, 5, 8, 12, 15, 17, 18), no doubt the club's desperate last attempt to compensate for not getting the U.S. Open it so wanted and won't get by presenting bacon strip fairways.

[John Kavanaugh]

Let's not forget that Geoff also said:

"Since Riviera will never get a U.S. Open again, the ownership that sends governing bodies running for the hills can take heart in watching the 2015 Northern Trust Open field struggle."

He needs to learn to look past his hatred of the current ownership to be taken seriously.   He is a great commentator on golf in general but falls off the wagon when it comes to anything concerning Riviera.

[Matthew Mollica]

John, I love Riv as you do. I feel you raise some good points but IMO Geoff's words are salient indeed.

Understanding the mindset of those at the Club would bot only have been helpful for the players but is also interesting from the GCA perspective.

Commentators kept revising the potential winning score down during the week. Geoff's words speak to a course which was always going to play tough, and tougher than before. A player cognizant of this has an advantage over the competition.

Geoff's insights also ring true in the context of #10 getting the risk / reward balance a little wrong (esp on Sat) and other issues like the trees which remain in the inside of 13. Geoff is on the money ( as usual ) and one wonders on the future form of the course in light of the present mindset. Will it get harder for everyday play, and is that necessarily better?

Matthew

[John Kavanaugh]

The only evidence I have is what played out on the course.  I do enjoy being vindicated so I was thrilled during the playoff when the three players moved past the 18th to see the 10th once again.  We saw what is comfortably the greatest playoff hole in the history of the game where a winner was not determined.  What more do you need to know that the 10th at Riviera is still just that.  The 10th at Riviera.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I wish we could celebrate the fact that while most of the country was stuck inside we witnessed a great regular tour event on one of the greatest courses ever built and maintained.

The left side of 18 needs to be rough to keep the bail out shots from rolling down to perfect position. You just can't go right off the tee, but if you do and execute perfectly you have a better angle. 18 played its role perfectly throught the tournament. How bout that stadium seating as a bonus?

18 Fwy should be widened on the right side all the way up to those bunkers short of the green.  And most of those trees on the right side separating 18 and 3 should be removed.  Similar to removing the trees on the left side of 13th Fwy, it would actually make for a more interesting and thought-provoking teeshot than just hit it down the middle.  especially for members and their guests which play the course the other 300+ days a year.

[Tim Gavrich]

Is it me or does -5 to -10 the magic range for exciting PGA Tour events? It seems that when courses are set up to have a winning score in that range, down the stretch you can get guys making a charge and guys collapsing at the top of the leaderboard.

Both Goosen and Kyle Reifers finished at -4, two shots out of the playoff. Goosen shot 75 and Reifers shot 67. I think that's a very good range of scores to be in play for players in contention. YOu see critical bogeys and birdies in pretty good measure.

[John Kavanaugh]

Wayne,

The trees were taken down on the 8th hole and the hole looks to have gotten worse yet again.  You never know what tinkering may bring.

[JESII]

Is it me or does -5 to -10 the magic range for exciting PGA Tour events? It seems that when courses are set up to have a winning score in that range, down the stretch you can get guys making a charge and guys collapsing at the top of the leaderboard.

Both Goosen and Kyle Reifers finished at -4, two shots out of the playoff. Goosen shot 75 and Reifers shot 67. I think that's a very good range of scores to be in play for players in contention. YOu see critical bogeys and birdies in pretty good measure.

Tim,

Yes!

-20 means you can't make a bogie unless you really try and even par means there are no birdies...

[Cristian]

Christian,

I can't think of a single golf course that changes its mowing lines for a tournament. Do you know of any that do? It is not an easy task.

I thought teaser titles were no longer acceptable, per Ran's direction; does Pat know something I don't?

Shinnecock
Though having the same grass for fairway and primary rough helps

I know RSG did for their last Open, because I had played there a few months before, and the fairways were almost double width. I have seen the same at Carnoustie and at some dutch open courses; usually the fairways are made smaller, so it is just a question of not mowing a few yards on the left and right side of the fairway. As Jeff said having the same grass on the fairway and in the primary cut of rough helps, although frankly I think this is a prerequisite for any course of quality and if I am not mistaken both the primary rough and the fairways at Riviera are Kikuyu or are they not? (at least with the present mowing lines. ;-) )

[Peter Pallotta]

Bottom line, Riviera again proved its mettle as a host for championship golf.  They found a way to defend against par without completely bastardizing the golf course...."

I was thinking along the same lines. I can't think of many classic courses that have hosted U.S. championships while still retaining as much of their original/traditional qualities and essence as Riviera does. To me, that course's essential "is-ness"  shines through more clearly than most others tasked with (and modified for) hosting the best golfers in the world. In other words, it strikes me as a sure sign of Riviera's enduring design/architectural strengths that I can still recognize it as Riviera during a tournament.

Peter