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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2015, 06:20:02 PM »
Each player in the field must on either Thursday or Friday play the 10th as the first hole of the day. That is horribly scary. The stats should only reflect scores when played as the 10th.
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DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2015, 07:45:07 PM »
The tournament is the same format every year. 
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2015, 07:51:39 PM »
Today the leader started on 10 and made a bogey. Yesterday when the 10th was indeed the 10th hole he made birdie. I can't make this stuff up.
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Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2015, 07:54:25 PM »
Bingo Barney!

A great short 4 is one that a great player can bogie one day and birdie the next without any angst.

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Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

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Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2015, 08:29:40 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on February 20, 2015, 07:51:39 PM
Today the leader started on 10 and made a bogey. Yesterday when the 10th was indeed the 10th hole he made birdie. I can't make this stuff up.

True, but a guy one back has birdied it both days....
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Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2015, 02:15:20 AM »
Wonder what Bubba thinks now after a 2 on 10? ???
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Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2015, 03:34:19 AM »
Quote from: Tim Leahy on February 21, 2015, 02:15:20 AM
Wonder what Bubba thinks now after a 2 on 10? ???

Tim, what are  you referring to?
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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2015, 04:43:26 AM »
I'm curious to know what the strategy adopted by the pro's was for this hole in the days of persimmon and balata and has the hole changed at all since then? Thanks.
atb
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2015, 11:44:17 AM »
Quote from: Tim Leahy on February 21, 2015, 02:15:20 AM
Wonder what Bubba thinks now after a 2 on 10? ???

He eagled #1 which was his tenth hole after starting on the back nine. 
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2015, 04:31:19 PM »
Poor confused Bubba has birdied 10 now 2 days out of 3. The hole is clearly the most exciting hole we will watch until the Masters. Good news though, the media still hates it.



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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #35 on: February 21, 2015, 04:44:06 PM »
The mind is a terrible thing to have to deal with on a golf course  ;D

I love this hole!!
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2015, 04:54:36 PM »
I'm thrilled to hear it was a template for a hole on the new Olympic course.  Can't wait to see that!!!
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #37 on: February 21, 2015, 06:14:31 PM »
Quote from: Sean_A on February 20, 2015, 04:19:43 AM
Q.  Do you look forward to playing it?
    BUBBA WATSON:  No.

    Q.  Can you think of another hole [Riv 10] on TOUR that you least look forward to playing?
    BUBBA WATSON:  A bunch of them but that's the worst for sure.

    Q.  In a good kind of way?
    BUBBA WATSON:  No, I don't think it's a good kind of way.  It's just I'm scared to death of that hole.  We thought about laying up today but then I was like, well, that 80‑yard wedge shot is going to be just as tough as somehow getting lucky off the tee.  And today I got lucky off the tee where all I had to do was go over the tree straight up the green.

I saw this Q&A on Shack's site today.  Its my guess that Bubba is scared of the hole because the short yardage doesn't not compute with the expected scores.  Surely the hole can't be scary from a big score PoV.  If I am correct, isn't this why the hole is so cool?  Does Bubba (Bubba as in the tour pro) get it...or doesn't it matter?

Sean,

I wouldn't put too much stock in Bubba's comment/s.

He's a highly skilled PGA Tour Pro and I doubt that # 10 strikes fear into his heart.

Rather, I think Bubba understands the audience and what they're looking for and as such, he responded as hoped for.

With the PGA Tour golfer's bunker game, being in the greenside bunkers at # 10 gives them a good chance at birdie.
    
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Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #38 on: February 21, 2015, 08:44:08 PM »
   Ian baker Finch trashed the hole pretty badly today.  Called it silly (or some such word) due to today's green speeds.  Called what happened to Goosen and Moore examples of a hole gone wrong.
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Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #39 on: February 21, 2015, 09:01:11 PM »
Moore was pretty hard done by, I thought.

For anyone who didn't see it, his tee shot literally lipped out for an ace, spun out of the hole to the left and then rolled down the shaved bank and 30 yards off the green. Ended up making 4.

Baker-Finch was decidedly critical of the hole after this happened and felt like such a near perfectly struck shot deserved a better result.

Certainly wasn't a great break, but everyone that tries that shot does know the risk.

Goosen was 40 yards short of the green but was on such a poor angle that he couldn't even aim for it; he chipped sideways to a spot in front.

These are certainly things you don't see on an ordinary golf hole.
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #40 on: February 21, 2015, 09:16:53 PM »
Moore hit a driver that didn't hold the green. People who complain about that type of break are dying for you to ask for more. Best thing for everyone is to pretend it never happened.
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Josh Stevens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #41 on: February 21, 2015, 10:50:01 PM »
Don't wish to toss a turd into to the pool - Im sure the 10th is a great hole, though I have never seen nor played it.  But is it healthy when a course is seemingly measured by the greatness of one hole?  Riviera presumably has lots of decent holes, but they do seem to struggle to get a look in over all the fuss about the 10th.  IS it that much better than the rest, or is that the PGA tour actually throws up so few decent short 4s that its a bit of a novelty.  Is all the fuss then a indictment on the poor quality of the PGA offerings rather than the high quality of the hole?
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Matthew Essig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #42 on: February 21, 2015, 11:52:30 PM »
If anything needs to change, it is a slight shave of the shoulder from the bunker on the front right of the green. Maybe 1/4 of a degree is all that is needed.


It is a bummer Ryan Moore walked away with a par. He birdied 10 the first two days, and hit an incredible drive that easily could have gone down for an albatross/hole in one.
Also, after Goosen chipped sideways to the front fringe, he putted it off the other side. Sure, people make mistakes, but he was ranked #1 in strokes-gained putting up to that point. Hard to believe someone putting that well would do that. As I said above, maybe 1/4 of a degree shaving of the shoulder. 1/2 a degree tops.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 11:56:36 PM by Matthew Essig »
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"Good GCA should offer an interesting golfing challenge to the golfer not a difficult golfing challenge." Jon Wiggett

Philip Hensley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2015, 11:25:43 AM »
Quote from: Josh Stevens on February 21, 2015, 10:50:01 PM
Don't wish to toss a turd into to the pool - Im sure the 10th is a great hole, though I have never seen nor played it.  But is it healthy when a course is seemingly measured by the greatness of one hole?  Riviera presumably has lots of decent holes, but they do seem to struggle to get a look in over all the fuss about the 10th.  IS it that much better than the rest, or is that the PGA tour actually throws up so few decent short 4s that its a bit of a novelty.  Is all the fuss then a indictment on the poor quality of the PGA offerings rather than the high quality of the hole?

It should be an indictment of the television people. Is sawgrass a mediocre design because they literally spend an entire day on #17? Scottsdale #16? Last week at pebble they focused on 2-3 holes.
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Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2015, 11:53:04 AM »
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2015, 02:15:03 PM »
Duncan, Piercy's sand save percentage is 45%. 147th on tour ranking.  He had a relatively easy par if he would have taken the first bunker blast away from the hole.  It was evident from his strokes he has a poor bunker technique, IMO.

The near par 4 ace trundling off and resulting in par was rub of green and par was an acceptable result, I'd say.

The hole has a few reasonable strategies for safe par or good chance at birdie from multiple lay-up positions. 

It is a great hole.  IBF is off the mark on this one, IMHO.
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2015, 07:03:24 PM »
OK, 3 men and a playoff, on the tenth tee...

All made par in regulation. 

What would you do?
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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2015, 07:17:18 PM »
Please delete this thread as we have learned it was based in the folly of misperceptions.
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #48 on: February 22, 2015, 07:31:34 PM »
Two player's talent overcame the architecture despite in my opinion were not the best tee shot decisions, going at  a pin high at the green rather than a layup for a safer pitch.  But, Hahn and Johnston both hit amazing flop shots and pressure puts. 

Turns out the deal was done on two great reads for excellent putts.   

I'd question a person's vital signs if they didn't enjoy this round of golf at "The Riv".   ;)
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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Riviera 10: Expected Scores
« Reply #49 on: February 22, 2015, 07:56:38 PM »
Quote from: John Kavanaugh on February 22, 2015, 07:17:18 PM
Please delete this thread as we have learned it was based in the folly of misperceptions.

Whose, yours?   ;D
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