Irrefutable proof architectural design has no effect on the speed of play

[noonan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3tJRbj14PQ

Many times these players have no obstacles to consider in making their shot.

The people are flawed - not the course design.

There are times it is painful to watch their pre shot routine.

There are comments below the video about them editing out their yips.

[Jim Sherma]

Competition makes people twitchy. I used to play a lot of disc golf and even with this the game is still fast and cheap. The length of the walk makes up a lot of time. If high level golf was still played on 5500-6200 yard courses it would be faster and there would be more walkers.

[noonan]

I agree - length equals time spent on the course.

[David_Elvins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3tJRbj14PQ

Didn't see a lot of time spent looking for frisbees in long rough.

[Adrian_Stiff]

1000 yards of golf course = about 10 minutes of walking time, so there is not so much =/- related to the length of the golf course.

Time spent on the greens is where the big percentage is. So tricky greens where three putts are likely or difficult greenside hazards, that repell the ball are all design features that add time.

If lesser golfers tackle longer courses they will take longer, but it does not work quite the same in reverse. A good player takes two shots to reach a 500 yard and two shots to reach a 350 yard hole (albiet he should be closer at the shorter hole with his approach.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jerry,

Slow Play is a cultural issue not an architectural issue.

Not long ago my foursome played behind two couples.

The pre and post shot ritual of one women was excruciating to watch.
Now, I can somewhat understand a pre-shot ritual.
BUT, a post-shot ritual ?  ?  ?

We waited on every shot.
Even though the company was fantastic, all great guys with a great sense of humor, the slow pace of play
detracted from the round.

They had a hole open in front of them on a crowded day.

And they had neither the sense of courtesy or consideration to offer to let us through.
They just didn't care about any golfers other than themselves.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I agree - length equals time spent on the course.

had an email exchange with a science type guy who has written some papers on the length to time ratio, and concludes it is significant. He even studies cart path routes that go from left of the green to the next tee on the right of the green, and recommends rerouting those.   A lot of it is intuitive to most architects (golfers take the shortest route, paths on the slice sice are handier and quicker than path on the hook side, etc) but an interesting study nonetheless.

Many of the fast play experts caution that while golfers/customers can be frustrating, changing your customers human nature is probably just going to drive them away.  The solution may better lie in designing (and managing) for speed of play.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff, et. al,.

Most local golf courses are well under 7,000 yards.

Most probably in the 6,400 to 6,800 range for the great majority of the male members.

I doubt that play from 6,800 adds significantly to the time to play versus 6,400.

[Matt MacIver]

Hazards, OOB and the Rules all also lead to slow play.

There is no doubt a shorter course would lead to a faster round, when taken in conjunction with the above. To wit: pick a tee box where there is NO WAY your ball would find a hazard or OOB - leave those obstacles to the pros to tackle. With that, and less strokes, there are less Rules to agonize over...etc etc.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hazards, OOB and the Rules all also lead to slow play.

THE RULES ?  ? ?

"When the rules are broken at leisure, the game ceases to be "GOLF"

The "rules" are what helps make the game a game of integrity.

There is no doubt a shorter course would lead to a faster round, when taken in conjunction with the above. To wit: pick a tee box where there is NO WAY your ball would find a hazard or OOB - leave those obstacles to the pros to tackle. With that, and less strokes, there are less Rules to agonize over...etc etc.

[Bill_Yates]

My 20+ years of experience working with golf course management teams to improve the pace of play tells me this:
The time it "should take" to play is determined by the course designer.
The time it "does take" to play is shared responsibility of the course management team and the players.

[Tim_Weiman]

Pat Mucci,

I'm in complete agreement that slow play is a cultural issue. The biggest problem in America is the lack of grumpy old men harassing (and teaching) young kids to move on a golf course. I miss those guys.

Now that aside, I shutter to ask. What, for heavens sake, is a "post shot" routine?

[noonan]

Pat Mucci,

I'm in complete agreement that slow play is a cultural issue. The biggest problem in America is the lack of grumpy old men harassing (and teaching) young kids to move on a golf course. I miss those guys.

Now that aside, I shutter to ask. What, for heavens sake, is a "post shot" routine?

Agree. When I was a kid slow golf was not tolerated.

Some of these disc golfer need to hit it...err let it go quicker. They were painful to watch.

[jeffwarne]

Pat Mucci,

I'm in complete agreement that slow play is a cultural issue. The biggest problem in America is the lack of grumpy old men harassing (and teaching) young kids to move on a golf course. I miss those guys.

Now that aside, I shutter to ask. What, for heavens sake, is a "post shot" routine?

Some of these disc golfer need to hit it...err let it go quicker. They were painful to watch.

Those disc golfers are way faster than many competitive golfers
No caddies to discuss the shot ad nauseum-in fact no commentary at all is very refreshing.
Ever notice how TV commentators ry to predict the outcome of every shot?