US Open prep at Chambers Bay: Extreme Measures

[Grant Saunders]

Here is a passage from a USGA article about preparation for the US open.

"To minimize traffic on the 15th green at Chambers Bay during the winter, golf balls are collected by a staff member (right) once they reach the green, and players add either one or two strokes to their score, depending on how close they are to the flagstick. (USGA/Steve Gibbons)"

http://www.usga.org/news/2015/February/Winter-U-S--Open-Prep-Key-at-Chambers-Bay/

What kind of message does this send?

[Keith OHalloran]

That they feel the likelihood of a one putt can be entirely attributed to proximity to the hole?

[David_Tepper]

I think it sends the message they are worried about the condition of the 15th green. ; Would it be better if they had created a temporary green?

[Garland Bayley]

I think it sends the message they are worried about the condition of the 15th green. ; Would it be better if they had created a temporary green?

No place for a temporary green on that hole.

[Matthew Essig]

David,
That is exactly what the USGA and Chambers Bay don't want people thinking!!!


There is nothing wrong with any of the green's current condition. It is ALL precautionary. After being so wet winter time a year ago, it ruined the greens well into May/June. It wasn't just a problem at Chambers.... Several local courses were working constantly to save the greens. This winter was predicted to be just as bad, but it turned out to be fairly mild. The greens are fine this year. Again, ALL precautionary. Apparently, March still has a chance of being poor weather wise. So, the temps continue. The USGA and Chambers Bay want the best for the best. Plus, the temps are placed along bunkers, run at the same speed, and are still fescue. If you weren't told they were temps, you might not even know. So, the USGA doesn't even feel bad about having temps. #15 is the only bummer because there isn't a spot for a temp.

[jeffwarne]

Here is a passage from a USGA article about preparation for the US open.

"To minimize traffic on the 15th green at Chambers Bay during the winter, golf balls are collected by a staff member (right) once they reach the green, and players add either one or two strokes to their score, depending on how close they are to the flagstick. (USGA/Steve Gibbons)"

http://www.usga.org/news/2015/February/Winter-U-S--Open-Prep-Key-at-Chambers-Bay/

What kind of message does this send?

Does the staff member levitate?

One day they'll go to a public course,

..........and play a public course


actually they did that at Shinnecock in '04

[Jon Cavalier]

This sort of pisses me off - I am (or was) considering playing Chambers Bay next month and was told something completely different by phone. I called recently for precisely this issue (concerns about US Open Prep) and was told a very different story.

[Matthew Essig]

This sort of pisses me off - I am (or was) considering playing Chambers Bay next month and was told something completely different by phone. I called recently for precisely this issue (concerns about US Open Prep) and was told a very different story.

What were you told?

I am still planning on playing it one more time before the US Open. It is a bummer that it still costs so much, but other than the 15th hole precaution, there is little to detract from the experience.

[David_Tepper]

The "Winter Care" Program At Chambers  Bay:

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2015/2/12/the-winter-care-program-at-chambers-bay.html

[Josh Tarble]

Why is this any different than the Old Course or any number of links courses requiring play from mats during the winter?

[Matthew Essig]

Why is this any different than the Old Course or any number of links courses requiring play from mats during the winter?

It isn't.

[Wade Whitehead]

I was in Seattle in August and called to inquire about a starting time before the trip.  I was told that "up to four" temporary greens would be in play.

Didn't play, of course.

Re: Playing from mats at the Old Course, at least you get to hole out 18 times.

WW

[Garland Bayley]

I was in Seattle in August and called to inquire about a starting time before the trip.  I was told that "up to four" temporary greens would be in play.

Didn't play, of course.

Re: Playing from mats at the Old Course, at least you get to hole out 18 times.

WW

What you don't understand is that temporary greens at Chambers Bay are very close in character to the real greens, at least in my experience. I've played a temporary that I didn't realize was temporary until someone mentioned it as we left the green. Since the course is all fescue, they can mow fairway to green height, and have a very close approximation to the real greens. If the hole is too short for you then, just move back a tee.

[Matthew Essig]

I was in Seattle in August and called to inquire about a starting time before the trip.  I was told that "up to four" temporary greens would be in play.

Didn't play, of course.

Re: Playing from mats at the Old Course, at least you get to hole out 18 times.

WW

What you don't understand is that temporary greens at Chambers Bay are very close in character to the real greens, at least in my experience. I've played a temporary that I didn't realize was temporary until someone mentioned it as we left the green. Since the course is all fescue, they can mow fairway to green height, and have a very close approximation to the real greens. If the hole is too short for you then, just move back a tee.

+1 There is/are one or two of them I like better than the actual greens!

[Brent Carlson]

I'm glad we got to play the real course at KP last year. 

[Greg Chambers]

I'm not sure what's worse....the fact that they have to compromise the course due to tough fescue growing conditions...or the fact that hosting a USGA event requires having to compromise the course due to the desire for rediculous turf conditions.

[Bart Bradley]

I was in Seattle in August and called to inquire about a starting time before the trip.  I was told that "up to four" temporary greens would be in play.

Didn't play, of course.

Re: Playing from mats at the Old Course, at least you get to hole out 18 times.

WW

What you don't understand is that temporary greens at Chambers Bay are very close in character to the real greens, at least in my experience. I've played a temporary that I didn't realize was temporary until someone mentioned it as we left the green. Since the course is all fescue, they can mow fairway to green height, and have a very close approximation to the real greens. If the hole is too short for you then, just move back a tee.

+1 There is/are one or two of them I like better than the actual greens!

Matthew.

Come on now.  The temporary greens pale in comparison to the real greens. I don't understand your defense of the need for temp greens. Please name another great course where you can't play to 20% of the real greens in high season. It is different than mats in winter at the Old Course.
Chambers Bay is a very cool design but the agronomics don't currently match the quality of the design.

Bart

[Grant Saunders]

I was in Seattle in August and called to inquire about a starting time before the trip.  I was told that "up to four" temporary greens would be in play.

Didn't play, of course.

Re: Playing from mats at the Old Course, at least you get to hole out 18 times.

WW

What you don't understand is that temporary greens at Chambers Bay are very close in character to the real greens, at least in my experience. I've played a temporary that I didn't realize was temporary until someone mentioned it as we left the green. Since the course is all fescue, they can mow fairway to green height, and have a very close approximation to the real greens. If the hole is too short for you then, just move back a tee.

+1 There is/are one or two of them I like better than the actual greens!

Matthew.

Come on now.  The temporary greens pale in comparison to the real greens. I don't understand your defense of the need for temp greens. Please name another great course where you can't play to 20% of the real greens in high season. It is different than mats in winter at the Old Course.
Chambers Bay is a very cool design but the agronomics don't currently match the quality of the design.

Bart

Barts view is pretty much what I feel is being conveyed by these measures required to have the course in a condition suitable for the Open.

Does this, coupled with the very extreme example that was Pinehurst last year, actually damage what it seems the USGA is trying to do in terms of exposing a different model for US golf? Low input courses and sustainability are certainly philosophies that need more exposure to the golfing public in order to gain serious traction against the current approach. It really isn't going to help the merits of fescue as a surface if the wider publics introduction to it is a course that felt the need to take 25% of their key playing surface out of play so they can put up course worthy of a major tournament. Certainly there exists issue with expectations as well but having people hit onto a green only to have their balls tossed back to them and be assigned a number of putts isn't a real positive marketing angle.

I agree with Jeff as well in saying that its one thing to proudly put forth that the Open is going to a public course but to then resort to such measures to ensure the course is up to standard doesn't really gel.

Maybe its well time that the USGA built their own course to host the Open on and they can tinker and muck around with it as much as they want.

[Matthew Essig]

I was in Seattle in August and called to inquire about a starting time before the trip.  I was told that "up to four" temporary greens would be in play.

Didn't play, of course.

Re: Playing from mats at the Old Course, at least you get to hole out 18 times.

WW

What you don't understand is that temporary greens at Chambers Bay are very close in character to the real greens, at least in my experience. I've played a temporary that I didn't realize was temporary until someone mentioned it as we left the green. Since the course is all fescue, they can mow fairway to green height, and have a very close approximation to the real greens. If the hole is too short for you then, just move back a tee.

+1 There is/are one or two of them I like better than the actual greens!

Matthew.

Come on now.  The temporary greens pale in comparison to the real greens. I don't understand your defense of the need for temp greens. Please name another great course where you can't play to 20% of the real greens in high season. It is different than mats in winter at the Old Course.
Chambers Bay is a very cool design but the agronomics don't currently match the quality of the design.

Bart

Bart,

I am not spewing BS. Since a little after the end of the US Am, summer of 2010, there have been changes being made and temp greens being used. I have played the course enough times the past 4+ years to know that the temp greens are fantastic. I like them better than most everyday greens on other courses in the Seattle area. They roll smooth and are kept at the same speed as the other greens. The superintendent specifically picks the next best spot (drainage, playability, strategy). They aren't dumb ovals in the middle of nowhere.

I like the temp green on 13 better than the actual green; I love the angle the temp green sits to the bunker and the slope in and around it. The other temp greens aren't AS great as the actual greens, but a couple of them are NO slackers. The one on 10 makes a fun punchbowl with shoulders protruding in. The one on 4 still sits way on the hill above the bunker. Move a tee or two back on both and they are still fun, interesting holes. The one on 1 isn't so great, but I have a bias to this one as I made 3 last time I played. I don't remember the one on 7, and I have never played to the temp green on 12; it sounds bland as a par 3.

What makes you say it is high season? January-February probably has the lowest golfer turnout here. It should be 40-50 and drizzling.

If I wasn't in school, I would try to play there. 60 degrees and partly cloudy for the 3 day weekend. Quite unusual weather-wise.

P.S. There are a couple mats on 8.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Barts view is pretty much what I feel is being conveyed by these measures required to have the course in a condition suitable for the Open.

Does this, coupled with the very extreme example that was Pinehurst last year, actually damage what it seems the USGA is trying to do in terms of exposing a different model for US golf? Low input courses and sustainability are certainly philosophies that need more exposure to the golfing public in order to gain serious traction against the current approach. It really isn't going to help the merits of fescue as a surface if the wider publics introduction to it is a course that felt the need to take 25% of their key playing surface out of play so they can put up course worthy of a major tournament. Certainly there exists issue with expectations as well but having people hit onto a green only to have their balls tossed back to them and be assigned a number of putts isn't a real positive marketing angle.

I agree with Jeff as well in saying that its one thing to proudly put forth that the Open is going to a public course but to then resort to such measures to ensure the course is up to standard doesn't really gel.

Maybe its well time that the USGA built their own course to host the Open on and they can tinker and muck around with it as much as they want.
[/quote]

Grant,
  Im not sure how much you were on twitter last weekend, but this became a passionate discussion among us Supts. Many feel the USGA's "down with brown" look at Pinehurst hurt the industry and the golf world. It did not make people excited to play golf and many comments Supts reported at their clubs regarding it, was negative. American's dont like brown, brown turf isn't healthy turf. Overly lush isn't, either. Pinehurst looked poor. If the USGA was so into "down with brown," why wasn't the US Womens Open and Amateur and the other 10 USGA Events presentedd in such a way?

[Bart Bradley]

I was in Seattle in August and called to inquire about a starting time before the trip.  I was told that "up to four" temporary greens would be in play.

Didn't play, of course.

Re: Playing from mats at the Old Course, at least you get to hole out 18 times.

WW

What you don't understand is that temporary greens at Chambers Bay are very close in character to the real greens, at least in my experience. I've played a temporary that I didn't realize was temporary until someone mentioned it as we left the green. Since the course is all fescue, they can mow fairway to green height, and have a very close approximation to the real greens. If the hole is too short for you then, just move back a tee.

+1 There is/are one or two of them I like better than the actual greens!

Matthew.

Come on now.  The temporary greens pale in comparison to the real greens. I don't understand your defense of the need for temp greens. Please name another great course where you can't play to 20% of the real greens in high season. It is different than mats in winter at the Old Course.
Chambers Bay is a very cool design but the agronomics don't currently match the quality of the design.

Bart

What makes you say it is high season? January-February probably has the lowest golfer turnout here. It should be 40-50 and drizzling.

P.S. There are a couple mats on 8.

Matthew

I was there last June. 4 temp greens in play. Lots of mats on lots of holes stopping balls from rolling.  Many areas around greens marked as "out of play". A few of the greens in play were in poor condition. The temp greens had some okay contours but are certainly not bunkered or positioned as well as the "real" greens.  Lovely design, huge maintenance issues.

If June isn't high season what is?

Bart

[jeffwarne]

If the temporary greens at Chambers are "fantastic", why not use them in the Open?

[Scott Stambaugh]

I have played the course enough times the past 4+ years to know that the temp greens are fantastic. I like them better than most everyday greens on other courses in the Seattle area.


This is the silliest thing I've read on here in quite some time...  Matthew, I'll assume that school prohibits you from getting around to play much golf in Seattle?

[Wade Whitehead]

I just can't believe that the actual greens aren't better than the ground immediately in front of them (in terms of design or character, if not playability).  If true, doesn't this make a massive statement about the golf course?

I'm sure none of us would want to play eighteen temporary greens.  Wherever your line is, mine is somewhere under four (and, very likely, equal to zero).

WW

[Garland Bayley]

I have played the course enough times the past 4+ years to know that the temp greens are fantastic. I like them better than most everyday greens on other courses in the Seattle area.


This is the silliest thing I've read on here in quite some time...  Matthew, I'll assume that school prohibits you from getting around to play much golf in Seattle?

Perhaps you aren't familiar with most everyday greens on other courses in the Seattle area. I would guess most everyday greens in the Seattle area are not found at Seattle Golf Club, Sahallee, etc. More likely they are found at Jackson Park, Jefferson Park, etc.