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Jim_Kennedy

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Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« on: February 08, 2015, 08:22:37 PM »
A little info from Wiki:
  
Bobby Jones opened with a 69 in the first round to grab the lead, then followed a with a 75. After a third round 71, he had a three-stroke lead over Gene Sarazen and was four clear of Espinosa after 54 holes. Sarazen fell out of contention in the final round with a 78 and fell to a tie for third place. Espinosa shot a 75 and a 294 total, but it appeared like it would not be enough to overtake Jones. Beginning with the 15th, Jones needed only three bogeys and a par to win the championship. However, he triple-bogeyed the 15th and then made another bogey on 16 and his lead was gone. He made par at the 17th, but his approach on the 18th found a greenside bunker. Needing to get up-and-down to save par and force a playoff, Jones rolled in a 12-foot putt for the tie.
   Jones dominated the 36-hole playoff on Sunday, with a 72 in the morning round to grab a 12-shot lead. Espinosa struggled again on the second 18, shooting an 80 to Jones' 69, and Jones won the playoff by 23 shots. He won his fourth U.S. Open in 1930 and the grand slam.



                                                                                                                           Source: Golf.Com


One minute Pathe film clip of the Open
http://tinyurl.com/qfdnsol


Nothing new in the above, but I've never seen these overhead hole-by-hole photos (Curtiss Flying Service/1929 Golf Illustrated ) of the course as it looked in '29:

Holes 1-6

 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 08:28:28 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2015, 08:26:06 PM »
Holes 7-12:

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2015, 08:27:31 PM »
Holes 13-18:

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2015, 08:29:44 PM »
Takes me back to my first copy of the World Atlas of Golf, with its side by side charts of how certain holes were played in big tournaments.

I'm sure you know that GI did a whole series of these types of breakdowns, would be happy to add the ones I have to this thread if you want them.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2015, 08:30:49 PM »
Takes me back to my first copy of the World Atlas of Golf, with its side by side charts of how certain holes were played in big tournaments.

I'm sure you know that GI did a whole series of these types of breakdowns, would be happy to add the ones I have to this thread if you want them.

Sven

Yes, and yes.  ;)
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2015, 08:35:53 PM »
First, more on WFW (Golf Illustrated, June 1929).  Interesting to compare the suggested plan of attack against what was actually done as noted above.









Love these old photos from the same edition, makes me think we should do a "Now and Then" series incorporating the great work by Baush, Saltzman, Cavalier and the rest of the paparazzi.



« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 08:37:56 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jeff Taylor

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2015, 09:17:28 PM »
The bar has been raised.

Michael Felton

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2015, 09:26:12 PM »


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the 7th? Was the layout changed at some point or am I mistaken?

DMoriarty

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2015, 09:50:55 PM »
Jim and Sven,

Thanks for starting another potentially great thread.  You guys are on a roll.

I love those old hole by hole tournament overlays if for no other reason because they give a good idea of what the fairway widths were supposed to be, even for the best golfers.

I did a quick overlay of the current fairway for the first hole. 



Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2015, 11:11:56 PM »
David,
Thanks, I was wondering about that.  Must have been quite a different playing experience in '29 if #1 is indicative of the rest of the course.
 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2015, 12:29:48 AM »
Well David, today's mowers do cost a lot more than they did back in 1929.

Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2015, 12:35:22 AM »
One more image of the 18th.  Not sure what they meant by the byline.

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

V. Kmetz

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #12 on: February 09, 2015, 02:15:39 AM »
Hello,

Great stuff JS...!! thank you!

I'd like to highlight what I think are the holes that have changed the most in comparison to this 1929 course...places where the distance, the tee, bunker placement or green size balance is not limited to the cosmetic. I've got to say that, on balance, the dental records of its youth match up pretty well with the film of today.

#14 - Varying in the description and the pic, this hole is no longer the drive and pitch sort. While the white tees still play from under 400, the "blue" and championship positions have gone into the hinterlands (430 and 459)...combined with the enlarged (in interim years) Shamrock bunker (left fairway bunker), which has been crept a few yards closer to the green (it appears) and loss of width in the outside (right) of the fairway, this hole has changed the most since the 1929 version, just off the tee...and then you must consider the fact that now this eruption of green surface is framed left and right by traditionally deep "Tillie" bunkers. Though it would be rendered somewhat cosmetic by today's increased length, the right fairway bunker no longer exists; nor does the cross bunker 30 yards in front of the green...that one would be more intersting as the false front approach feeds right back to that spot.  But it is more often a brutal hole now...usually a  Drive and mid-iron if the tee shot can clear the Shamrock and reach a much narrower piece of angled fairway. I admit that longer hitters can get into a 9-iron/PW country from a 425 tee, but the angle is awkward and so that has to be laser placed or find difficult rough, which reduces the effectiveness of the shorter club possible.

#4 - Like #14, this hole has become infinitely more difficult with the years. The contemporary tee is the key here, as now the standard tee used resides almost entirely out of the top left 1929 match picture shown. Not only is it a longer carry over the (left) bunker, but it creates a much thinner angle when one clears that bunker to a (now) greatly reduced strip of fairway. The right tree line along the entire length of the approach had become overgrown in pre-2000 years, but has been once gain cut back to not interfere with shots coming from the right rough. But the fairway on that side is no where near as generous as the 1929 pic; I would conservatively say that there is 12 more yards width of rough nowadays on that side and about 5 more of rough on the left. It's clear to me that this hole was once a straightaway wide boulevard (where you could actually see LI Sound - hence its name) tumbling invitingly to an attractive target in the distance; now it's a grind.

# 5, #11, #18 - In the 1929 iteration there were no fairway bunkers in the drive zone as there are today.  Each of these in today's WFW, present a fairly significant obstacle to the tee shot.  On #5 and #18 there is now a large deep bunker that covers the area approximately the 270-310 tee yardage on the right side pf each. On #11, a huge and attractive bunker guards the left side of the fairway (smack where Jones hit his tee shot in the pic) from the 270-295 range. (Of these  #5 would have to be first in terms of "alteration", because beside the absence of the notorious fairway bunker on the right, there is also no bunker at the front right of the green...today, this large bunkers gathers so many failed attempts at reaching the surface in two, and looms over a chunked wedge in the more regularly-seen 3rd shot, a big difference)

#3 and #13 - Though mostly a cosmetic hazard, the pics show each of these long par 3s, originally had a large cross bunker, starting about 110-130 from the teeing ground, preventing a ground play or catching a mishit (moreso on #13). these are not here today, From my own research, I can tell you that in later years on #13, this bunker turned into a cluster of smaller ones (in the 40s) and then one solitary, mid-sized one until the early 1990s. You can still see the vestiges of all these iterations still in the contour of the fairway and rough as you walk to this hole.

If the green margins can be accurately discerned; I'd say #8 has grown the most, and #6 shrunk the most dramatically--that entrance is now like 4 or 5 paces wide, and there is now a sunken bunker along its immediate left).

There's a few other items here and there, if you want to hear em, let me know...

Besides general lengthening (most extreme on #2, #4, #12, #14) and narrowing, those are some of the most significant alterations I can observe from these pics and my own study and looping. Of course, Jones and Espy played it as a 72 (9 and 16 were 5s for all then), butthat doesn't matter; I wish there weren't pars listed on any hole, just do the best you can.

Just an unrelenting course as far as medal score, but not impossible...and I think that's what keeps it in esteem as the years go on; it yields pleasure to sound play, plotted from a proper tee. You can be more proud of a good score on WFW, than you can be embarrassed by a poor one.

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

BCrosby

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2015, 11:46:40 AM »
Great stuff.

It looks like Jones' drives were in the range of 275 and longer. Is that what others are seeing? Are the yardage scales off?

Jones was long, but I didn't think that long.

Bob

DMoriarty

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2015, 01:13:18 PM »
Bob,  I've only looked at the first hole, but if we use the point of origin of the drives as the starting point, then the marked distances are about 25 yards off on the first hole.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

DMoriarty

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2015, 01:42:05 PM »
Here is the modern fairway laid over the 1929 fairway.  The image isn't big enough to show it, but tees have been added/extended to increase the hole distance by 80 yards.  

In the landing area, the fairway has gone from 50-55 yards wide, to 25 yards wide.



Bob, the distance measures on this hole are more accurate.  In fact they might understate the distance a bit.  As marked on the image, both drives measure around 245 yards.  
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 01:47:07 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

BCrosby

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2015, 02:33:33 PM »
David -

Thanks. Those distances - still long for his era - make more sense.

Bob 

Peter Pallotta

Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2015, 03:54:55 PM »
Yes, my thanks too gents - this is terrific, and there is nothing like those 'how they played the holes' for bringing one back (in the mind's eye) to the playoff and to what it was really like. And thanks to David for that overlay in post No. 8 -- what is also showed was that both Jones and Espinosa very clearly tried to play the angles/the proper side of the fairway

Peter

Dan Kelly

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2015, 04:09:56 PM »
From the great Dotted Line Era of American journalism -- which lasted until at least the 1960s, when I grew up reading the Peach Sports section (literally peach-colored) of the Sunday Minneapolis Tribune, which, in the autumn, was thick with dotted-line photographs from Saturday's football game of the mighty Minnesota Golden Gophers.

Thanks for this thread. I love it.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

BCrosby

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2015, 04:21:10 PM »
Dan - I have similar memories of waking up on Sunday mornings and looking at the dotted-line pictures of key plays in UGA and GA Tech football games from the day before. By lunch I had memorized every detail.

On a different topic, what the hell happened to Espinosa in the play-off against Jones? He played incredibly poorly. Did he mail it in thinking that as the highest finishing pro he was already assured of the first place money? Embarrassing.

Bob


Sven Nilsen

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2015, 04:28:05 PM »
A second set showing the 1932 US Amateur at Baltimore CC. 

This one has added commentary written in noting the yardages of shots and clubs used.











"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2015, 04:51:33 PM »
Seems like Tilly's work was par for the course in 1932:

The 1932 U.S. Open was the 36th U.S. Open, held June 23–25 at Fresh Meadow Country Club in Flushing, New York. Gene Sarazen won his second U.S. Open championship, and the fifth of his seven major titles, ten years after his first U.S. Open win. Earlier in the month, he won the 1932 British Open* in England. Sarazen began the tournament with rounds of 74-76, which left him five strokes back of leader Philip Perkins. Behind a 3-under-par back-nine in the third round, Sarazen carded an even-par 70 to get within a shot of Perkins. Perkins continued his solid play in the final round, shooting a 70 and a 289 total, while Bobby Cruickshank shot 68 to tie him. They were no match for Sarazen on this day, however, who carded a 66 (–4) to earn a three-stroke victory at 286.
Sarazen set several scoring records on his way to the Open title. His 66 in the final round set a new tournament record, and a champion did not shoot a better final round until Arnold Palmer closed with 65 in 1960. His 286 total tied the tournament record, while his 136 over the final 36 holes set a record that stood until 1983. Sarazen was certainly helped by the venue, as he was club pro at Fresh Meadow for five years, from 1925 to 1930. Four-time major champion Jim Barnes played his final major and finished in 55th place. Johnny Goodman won low-amateur honors at 14th. Goodman won the championship the following year.

* His 283 at The Open was the lowest score recorded at that time.

The course where this U.S. Open was played in Queens no longer exists. Designed by A. W. Tillinghast, it opened in 1923 and also hosted the PGA Championship in 1930, won by Tommy Armour. Under increasing development and tax pressure, the Fresh Meadow Country Club sold the property in 1946, which was developed as a residential neighborhood (the Fresh Meadows section of Queens). The club then purchased the property, clubhouse, and golf course of the defunct Lakeville Golf & Country Club in Lake Success, its current home.

Daily admission for the U.S. Open in 1932 was $2.20, or $5.50 for all three days. (World Heritage Encyclopedia)

Eugenio accepting the trophy:


A diagram of the course as it 'looked' for the Open(courtesy Joe Bausch), and an overhead photo from 1930 (Queen's NY GIS)






Holes 1 - 6 :



« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 05:14:23 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2015, 04:53:52 PM »
Holes 7 - 18



"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

V. Kmetz

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2015, 06:43:44 PM »
Hi again,

I'm pleased to see DM's modern overlay for #2; it brings to mind a couple of further comments:

1. Indeed, the latest back tee can make it play 455 on a crow's line to the middle, (but up to 470 with a two shot segment and a back pin). That newer bloc of teeing ground (built across the broken utility road you can see notoriously in the lower left of the 1929 picture) feels so distant and Herculean; it can be a wallop just to achieve the fairway from that newest strip and the left fairway bunker becomes a true obstacle.

2. But thankfully, NO ONE plays from there; it is unusual to see the rear-most tee of the day set up "across the road" at all. I believe it plays like 430 from the front of that newest "across the road" teeing strip. However the most common distance to play this hole for "blue" tee players is about 405-415, and about 380-400 for "white" tee players. For most, playing from their proper tee, the left fairway bunker is not in play (except for a lazy hook). I think the 1984 US Open was played from 410, but I can't track that down just now.

3. A sublime feature of the ground in the left half of this fairway's drive zone is that it twists and banks to the left with gradually-increased sharpness, right into today's left rough. It appears that the 1929 margins, which are enormous on the outer left curve, were a natural collection point for this subtle feature, and would've likely helped a drawing or low ball to gain extra yardage .

4. I realize no one was implying laser precision in these considerations, but I think this hole also has "straightened" somewhat with tee aiming over the years. While indeed nearly twice as broad in 1929, the hole had much more of a boomerang path of play; you were encouraged to play to that enormous outer left corner (which is still a longer players' best miss) for an exceptionally better angle into that green. But the "tee aim" of the hole inaugurated that strategic encouragement. In the following two images, I'm attempting to show what I mean.

In the first image, I've appended DM's overlay with "lines of aim" in parallel with the visible walking path aim (red for 1929, yellow for 2014):



In the second image there is no overlay, but I degraded the clarity of an Oct 2014 image (so it looks a little more like the photo quality of the 1929 base images) and placed a the same yellow line to show the tee aim of the contemporary walking path:



While the scales and orientation from photo to photo are not precise, including DM's overlay, hopefully you can see that the modern iteration of the hole aims much straighter down the narrowed fairway; the end of the aiming point (created squarely with the walking path in both cases) is some 25 yards more left in 1929, than what the evolution has yielded today, where the aiming point ends closer to left of the 6th tee.

An interim conclusion for me is that:

A. In 1929, the hole was "just this much" short of a Drive & Pitch for crack players, leaving them 135-115 in, and about 155-165 left in for more middling abilities.

B. The key for both parties was to get into the left side of the fairway, accept a "slightly" longer tack to that side, so you a). did NOT have to carry the ferocious right greenside bunker and, b). keep alive the option of a "run-up" approach directly towards what was a much more generous alleyway at the green front between the framing bunkers. There is an area in the 1929 fairway from where the player can actually see the back center of the green unobstructed, a sight not possible from anywhere in today's left side of the fairway--in 2015, you "always" have to confront that massive front right bunker and the angled calculation of carry. Precise driving was rewarded with options; imprecise driving was sanctioned by having to play an aerial shot. In 1929, you had to "tack" to the left on the drive, today you perform the "tacking" on the second shot..."go straight as far as you can, and then go 20 degrees right."

C. Today, the hole is rarely a drive and pitch, even for crack players, if they are playing at 430 - 450. And a player trying to play up to such a tee across the road for vanity sake will get crushed...all of the sudden the fairway is like 150 yards out and that left bunker is in play. It is not that a true crack player is incapable of playing it as a Drive n Pitch, but that the odds of hauling off a near-300 yarder that both stays straight in flight, as well as avoids the contour-lean to the left rough when it lands aren't very good. And the "price" for NOT pulling it off is, in 2015, that the crack player will have to play a 150-170 yard aerial shot from indefinite/and or shut down rough. However, played from a 410 distance these days, the quality player can get down far enough that, even if in the rough, it's at least played with, at worst, a 9 iron of some sort...there is at least a fighting chance.  On today's 2nd, the average guy playing from 380-390 or so, is really trying to stay out of the right rough. He knows, the best he is going to have left, will STILL have to navigate that front right bunker on approach...whether it's from 175 or 130 is one thing; it has its own set of problems...but it is impossible from the right rough...you have no angle, a view obscured by the enormous "maw" of that front bunker, and who knows what with the rough?

I think, on balance, the evolution of the hole has come to command that the player must confront that front right greenside bunker, whereas the 1929 version allowed a player to strategically skirt it with precise driving. Along with what must have been a substantially softer and more receptive green surface for that aerial shot, it seems obvious that there were multiple ways to play the hole coordinated by the quality of the drive, most importantly a run-up or punching shot was available.

Now the quality of the drive only positions you for the one and only way, aerial route...from a slightly longer "effective distance" than your tee's brethren of 1929.

I wonder if the rumored restor-vations, in conjunction with the success of the East work and the run-up to 2020, will be so bold as to assess this evolution on holes such as this and:

* Reconfigure this fairway to restore the large outer curve found on the left in 1929...thus promoting what seems to be the original strategy of this drive and this hole.

** To do so, while also maintaining the spirit, if not the letter, of breadth on the right side, at least for when after the Open leaves.

*** To not get cute and re-position the left fairway bunker, so it is "more in play for a modern era" That bunker never has, does not, and should not come into play for all but a terrible shot, or for a fool who isn't up to a 430+ tee, but goes there anyway.

**** Restore some of the width at the approach throat of the green between the two bunkers.

sorry that took so long...few comments, my ass.

cheers

vk



 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:48:03 PM by V. Kmetz »
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: Winged Foot -1929 US Open
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2015, 11:22:52 PM »
Hole #18 - 1929 - 2013 
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon