GCA Superbowl Matchup

[Jason Way]

In honor of tomorrow's game (which I admit to not caring much about), I throw out to you, GCA fans, another matchup.

If Team New England = MA, RI, VT, NH, ME and Team Seattle = WA, OR, make your case for which Team wins the GCA Superbowl.  Cases can be based on whatever GCA-related criteria you like.  A single course.  A short list of particularly strong courses.  The total number of quality courses.  The influence of a particular architect in a particular area.  Etc. etc.

Let 'er rip.   

[Gary Sato]

It's no contest. Boston destroys Seattle.  TCC, Myopia, Boston Golf Club, Old Sandwich against what? Sahalee, Seattle golf club?

[Joe_Tucholski]

It's no contest. Boston destroys Seattle.  TCC, Myopia, Boston Golf Club, Old Sandwich against what? Sahalee, Seattle golf club?

Gary that's why he stated New England (MA, RI, VT, NH, ME) vs Pacific Northwest (WA and OR).  That being said if you stick to the cities Boston wins but you didn't list the top courses in Seattle like Chambers Bay, Aldarra, Tumble Creek (a bit far), Gold Mountain.

I think questions like these are tough to answer.  I think I'll take the New England courses in the spring and fall and the Pacific Northwest courses in the summer and winter.

[Tom_Doak]

The only way it's a contest is if Seattle = Bandon, and you keep the competition to a small number of courses [5 or less]. 

The 10th and 20th best courses in New England would hammer their counterparts in the Pacific Northwest.

[Jason Way]

The only way it's a contest is if Seattle = Bandon, and you keep the competition to a small number of courses [5 or less]. 

The 10th and 20th best courses in New England would hammer their counterparts in the Pacific Northwest.

That is where I thought this might go.  Interested to see if someone makes a different argument one way or another.  However, to put a finer point on the question, if Team Seattle is:

Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Chambers Bay
Old Macdonald
Pacific Dunes

Can Team New England beat it with just 5?

If you add Gamble Sands to Team Seattle, can Team New England beat it with 6?

[Pete Blaisdell]

Gary and Tom have said it best. It's not even a competition . I'v been to Seattle and they have some nice tracks--Seattle Golf Club, Gold Mountain, Tacoma, Bayview, Broadmoor, Glenacres and Rainier. Pretty country BUT it's a rout. If it was a football game it would be like the Boston College Eagles taking on the Seattle High school JV'S!! Score would be 150 - 0.

[Matt Bielawa]

If public vs. public, Seattle/Washington can compete with Boston/Massachusetts, and PNW would beat NE.

[Jason Way]

Again though, I specifically did not say Seattle vs. Boston.  I said Team Seattle vs. Team New England.

If public vs. public, Seattle/Washington can compete with Boston/Massachusetts, and PNW would beat NE.

I would agree with that argument Matt. 

It also gets interesting if you go Modern Era vs. Modern Era.  Classic Era is less of a horserace although Jeff Mingay's recent work at Fircrest makes that a player and so is Eugene CC.  Even so, Team Seattle doesn't have the classics.

[Pete Blaisdell]

Jason

  Seattle is in Washington . The Bandon complex is in Oregon but if you want to include Bandon I can still tout the following within 35 miles of Boston.

  The Country Club---Brae Burn--Charles River --Weston--Oakley--Belmont--Blue Hill--Boston Golf Club--Concord CC--Dedham C & Polo--Essex County--Myopia Hunt--Salem CC--Framingham CC--Ferncroft--Vesper--George Wright--Granite Links--Indian Ridge--International--Stow Acres--Kernwood--Nashawtuc--Red Tail--Sharon CC--Tedesco--Walpole--Wellesley--Wollaston--and my favorite , the most underrated course in the country--Winchester cc.

  No contest!!

[Tim Bert]

I have driven from Seattle to Bandon. Including that on team Seattle is a bit of a streeeetch. If you are going to do that then draw a similar driving radius around Foxborough and then PNW is in real trouble.

[Bill_McBride]

If you're inckuding ALL of New England, "Seattle" becomes Pacific Northwest and the great courses of Vancouver and Victoria have to be included. 

I had an email yesterday from a judge in Vancouver who is a big Seahawks fan.  Case closed.

[Jason Way]

Fellas, I appreciate the geographical clarifications, but again, my original post said 2 things:

1. "Team New England = MA, RI, VT, NH, ME and Team Seattle = WA, OR"
2. "Cases can be based on whatever GCA-related criteria you like.  A single course.  A short list of particularly strong courses.  The total number of quality courses.  The influence of a particular architect in a particular area.  Etc. etc."

I concede that metropolitan Boston has better golf than metropolitan Seattle.  So does everybody else who has ever visited this site, or either city.

[Pete Blaisdell]

Total square miles of Washington and Oregon is app. 162, 000.

My previous list, if I could add courses within 75 miles of Boston and include tracks such as Hyannisport , Kittansett, Pleasant Valley , Worcester, Oyster Harbors, Olde Sandwich, Wianno ,Eastward Ho , Blackstone National, Whittinsville and about 25 other notable tracks, PUBLIC & PRIVATE, it would work out to be about 4000 square miles!!

Again, no contest.

[Bill_McBride]

The distance from the northern end of Maine to the southern end of Rhode Island is about 533 miles.  That's the region Jason specified.  How far is it from Vancouver to Bandon?   556 miles, close enough.  Fair is fair!

Hopefully the game will be more interesting!

[Pete Blaisdell]

Do I have to go so far as to include the major tracks in Vermont, Maine , NH, Rhode Island  and don't forget Connecticut (That's in New England).

Actually, I think I could make a case for a Team CT./ RI besting a Team Oregon /Washington. We are a bit week up in NH/VT/ME.but they might be competitive with a team Washington on its own.

[Pete Blaisdell]

Almost forgot, GO PATS!!!    Open to any wagers . Straight up , no points.

[Rich Goodale]

All of us born there know that Boston is the Hub of the universe.  The Universe trumps any conclusion based on Google maps.

PS--I've got the over/under of this completely OT subject being deleted by the masters of the universe @ 27 hrs, 33 minutes and 41 seconds.

[Pete Blaisdell]

Rich

  Been a long winter . Got more crap coming tomorrow . Got to have some fun. Super Bowl Sunday . Loosen up.

[Ken Fry]

Pete and Rich,

Typical Boston folks.  You do know the state of Massachusetts does extend west beyond Worcester??

 

[Brad Tufts]

Maybe so, but it does not extend 550 miles!!   

Let's go Pats!

[Gary Sato]

The only way it's a contest is if Seattle = Bandon, and you keep the competition to a small number of courses [5 or less]. 

The 10th and 20th best courses in New England would hammer their counterparts in the Pacific Northwest.

It's 450 miles from Seattle to Bandon which is just over a 6 hour drive.

If you use that distance and time for Boston, you bring all of the courses in Long Island into play and it becomes more lopsided.

[Jud_T]

Bandon is the best golf resort on the planet, is open to everyone and even approaches reasonable if you're willing take your chances weatherwise in the offseason.  Furthermore you can play year-round, not just April to October.  Boston has some great courses most can't access.  The Patriots have officially jumped the shark with deflategate.  Seahawks 28, Patriots 24...

[Jason Way]

Another way of looking at this is that Team Seattle's courses stand up better against modern equipment, specifically the modern ball.  To make the courses for Team New England more competitive, you would have to deflate the ball a little.  Oh wait...

[Pete Blaisdell]

   You guys are funny!! Enjoy the game.

[Rich Goodale]

Rich

  Been a long winter . Got more crap coming tomorrow . Got to have some fun. Super Bowl Sunday . Loosen up.

I'm loose, Pete, largely because I'm in Florida, and there is no snow on the horizon.  As for the game, I'm cool as to whatever result occurs, as long as it is deserved.  I'm slightly biased towards the Starbucks vs. the Sam Adams, only because they have more Stanford players on their team, and I think that Bellichek is a Rain Man who needs somebody to rain on his parade.