Another Colonial's Top 100 GBI

[Rich Goodale]

Alphabetically, within each group of 10.  All played (90+) or seriously walked (the rest).  Hey, If Tom Doak can do it, so can I!  

1st 10

Ballybunion
Birkdale
Carnoustie
County Down
Dornoch
Muirfield
Portmarnock
Portrush
Sandwich
Turnberry

2nd 10

Castle Stuart
Hoylake
Kingsbarns
Lahinch
Lytham St. A
Prestwick
St, Andrews Old
Troon
Trump Intl.
Western Gailes

3rd 10

Deal
Elie
Hunstanton
Littlestone
Panmure
Portsalon
Renaisssance
Royal Aberdeen
Rye
Waterville

4th 10

Alwoodley
Ballyliffin Old
Hankley Common
Liphook
Loch Lomond
North Berwick
Silloth
Southerness
Swinley
Westward Ho

5th 10

Cruden Bay
Enniscrone
Gullane #1
Ladybank
Leven
Machrihanish
Murcar
Southerndown
St. Andrews New
Wallasey

6th 10

Blairgowrie
Carne
Connemarra
Glasgow Gailes
Lossiemouth
Lundin
Nairn
Seaton Carew
Sheringham
St. Andrews Eden

7th 10

Brora
Bruntisfield
Gleneagles-Kings
Painswick
Peterhead
Royal Burgess
Scotscraig
Skibo
West Hill
West Kilbride

8th 10

Ballyliffin-New
Crail-Hanse
Downfield
Forfar
Hesketh
Mulranney
Northumberland
Pennard
RAC-Fowler
Shiskine

9th 10

Crail-Balcomie
Glenbervie
Gleneagles-Queens
Gullane #2
Kilspindie
Lanark
Musselburgh Old
Nairn Dunbar
Northumberland
St. Andrews Jubilee

10th 10

Auchterader
Bruntsfield
Dornoch-Struie
Dunbar
Elgin
Monifieth
Montrose
Pitferrane
Stirling
Troon-Portland

Rich

[Adam Lawrence]

that third ten is damned long!

[David_Tepper]

Rich -

Dornoch-Struie better than Tain or Golspie? Are you sure about that?

DT

[Rich Goodale]

that third ten is damned long!

Long, but good!

I knew I'd lost a 10.  Thanks, Adam.

Rich

[Rich Goodale]

Rich -

Dornoch-Struie better than Tain or Golspie? Are you sure about that?

DT

Yes, David, very sure.  You can, of course, disagree.  Please tell us why you do.

Rich

[David_Tepper]

Rich -

I do and I will, the next time we cross paths in Dornoch!

DT

[Peter Pallotta]

Rich - thanks, very nice, and I'm glad that you have joined Sean and Bogey in creating your list. Now, apologies in advance, as I'm going to put words in your mouth even though I shouldn't put words in your mouth:

It is almost as if, if one wanted to and was so inclined, your groupings of ten could be looked at and categorized/characterized as follows:

1st 10:  "10s" on the scale formerly known as the Doak Scale

2nd 10:  "9s"on said scale

3rd 10: "8s"  (a damn good score/rank)

4th 10: "7s" (still damn good)

5th 10: "6s" (still much better than most courses I have ever played)

6th 10: "5s" (see above)

7th 10 - 10th 10:  (all above the average "4s")

[Rich Goodale]

Peter

The Doak Scale is based on the 10,000+ golf courses in the world.  My top GBI 100 is based on the 150 or so courses I have played or seriously walked in GBI in the 37 years I have visited and/or lived there.  I can give an informed opinion as to how those courses might be Doak-ranked based on my experiences playing 200+ courses of high quality in other parts of the world, mostly the USA, but also mainland Europe, Australia and Canada.  That being said, I can't conceive of a Doak "0".  In fact, a few years ago I walked 4-5 holes with TD himself at his most famous "0" (The Castle Course) and while we agreed that it was very much over-egged i would give it a 4, if asked.

As for my GBI 100, it probably includes 100% of the GBI Doak 10s, 80% of the GBI  Doak 8-9s, and at least 50% of his GBI  6-7s and maybe 10% of the UK courses he has never seen.  I would replay any of the courses on my list, although not at the rack rate for those whose reach exceeds their grasp.

Cheers

Rich

[Mark Pearce]

Rich,

An interesting list.  I'm not surprised to find that I find far fewer placings that I disagree with in yours than I did in Sean's, highly though I rate his judgment.  Delighted to see Elie so high, pleased to see Silloth do well and very pleased to see Northumberland make your list.  I'm also in full agreement of your respective rankings of Balcomie and Craighead.

Am I right to assume that you are yet to get to St Enodoc and Ganton?

[Sean_A]

Is the place where I can write something whitty like:

Don't hold out any hope for Cavendish, as Rihc's list is very Scottish-centric, and I very much doubt that Goodale has played or even driven by Cavendish.  You will be pleased to know that my more balanced top-100 includes Cavendish along with plenty of other gems, Hesketh excluded because it is dreadful.

Nice exercise, but I am waiting to hear how Leven is anywhere near the class of Cruden Bay...

Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

Rich,

An interesting list.  I'm not surprised to find that I find far fewer placings that I disagree with in yours than I did in Sean's, highly though I rate his judgment.  Delighted to see Elie so high, pleased to see Silloth do well and very pleased to see Northumberland make your list.  I'm also in full agreement of your respective rankings of Balcomie and Craighead.

Am I right to assume that you are yet to get to St Enodoc and Ganton?

Mark

I've missed almost as many in England as Sean has missed in Scotland.  St. Enodoc and Ganton and the Sunningdales (putting green included) and the Berkshires and Huntercombe and Brancaster, and Burnham and Berrow and Trevose , not to mention those fellow Gaels at Aberdovey and Porthcawl, etc. etc.  Far too many golf courses and far too many years to be able to carry one's's drive 220+.  I'll continue to chip away at my SB (Southern Britain) resume as long aS my daughter keeps working in London and I am still a member of UKSGA.


All the best

Rich

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

If you have read any of my posts on Cruden Bay, you will know that have always believed that the course was  overrated.  Assuming you have not, here are the Cliff notes:

1. Looking out from the clubhouse, CB is one of the finest courses in the world.  Unfortunately, 9 of the holes you see in front of you are not on the main course but on the St. Olaf's.

2.  As for the main course, it is an average opener, 2 is extremely goofy even for very low handicap players, 3 is a good challenge if you can hit a driver 300 yards through a 20 yard gap (otherwise you lay up and then DOH), 4 is a tough 3 par that needs a 200+ yard club into the wind--no strategy other than hit and hope.  on the 5th I once stood for 30 minutes in a tournament on this visually spectacular tee.  It is two thoughtless hacks to a stupidly enlarged green.  6 was a good hole when OTM designed it.  The new T Simpson one is more interesting, but less conducive to strategy  7 is quirky hit a good drive and then hit your second between the gial posts and hope you have tghe right yardage.  8 is a driver whacked straight or you are fucked.  9 has a great view from the tee but from there to 18 it is MEH? to me.  The fact that they have blown up and are changing most of the back 9 tells me that all is not fine in Cruden Bay.

3.  As for Leven, it is pure links, no gimmicky holes, lots of challenges and lots of fun.  What's wrong with it and what's right with CB, Sean?

Rich

[Thomas Dai]

1. Looking out from the clubhouse, CB is one of the finest courses in the world.  Unfortunately, 9 of the holes you see in front of you are not on the main course but on the St. Olaf's.

The 3 best holes IMO of all 27 (28) at CB are the 6th, 7th and 8th on the St Olaf course. One of the best 9-hole courses around and a wasted opportunity if anyone visits CB and doesn't play it as well as the main course.

Nice listings Rihc, bracketing in "10's" in a good basis. Interesting and thought provoking.

Hope you get to play more down south.

Atb

[Mike Hendren]

Rich, I'm pleased to see Carnoustie in the top 10.   I thought it was fantastic and nowhere near the brute it is purported to be.

Please tell me you have The Old Course at 11th.  To see it grouped with Trump International is bold stuff indeed.  Are you well?

I take it you have not been to Sunningdale and Walton Health.  Please go immediately.

Kindest regards,

Bogey

[Adam Lawrence]

2.  As for the main course, it is an average opener, 2 is extremely goofy even for very low handicap players, 3 is a good challenge if you can hit a driver 300 yards through a 20 yard gap (otherwise you lay up and then DOH), 4 is a tough 3 par that needs a 200+ yard club into the wind--no strategy other than hit and hope.  on the 5th I once stood for 30 minutes in a tournament on this visually spectacular tee.  It is two thoughtless hacks to a stupidly enlarged green.  6 was a good hole when OTM designed it.  The new T Simpson one is more interesting, but less conducive to strategy  7 is quirky hit a good drive and then hit your second between the gial posts and hope you have tghe right yardage.  8 is a driver whacked straight or you are fucked.  9 has a great view from the tee but from there to 18 it is MEH? to me.  The fact that they have blown up and are changing most of the back 9 tells me that all is not fine in Cruden Bay.

They are moving the tenth tee and making a few changes to 16 green. With respect, that's not exactly 'the majority of the back nine'

[Niall C]

How does that song go ? I know "Northumberland, Northumberland, so good they named it twice !"

Anyway, glad to see Rich, like Sean with Dornoch, is willing to sacrifice another sacred cow in the shape of Cruden Bay. Again I agree. My beef with the course was the four blind holes on a trot on the back nine. Pissed me off no end however given what I had to say on the blind holes thread I suspect I would end up loving them if I ever became a member.

There's quite a few courses that I'm glad were included and I don't just mean Forfar. Glenbervie for one, then there's Elgin, Glasgow Gailes, Troon, and Southerness. All courses that are relatively unknown or don't get a lot of love even if they are.

As with Sean's list I'm deeply envious of the amount and quality of courses played.

Niall

[Rich Goodale]

2.  As for the main course, it is an average opener, 2 is extremely goofy even for very low handicap players, 3 is a good challenge if you can hit a driver 300 yards through a 20 yard gap (otherwise you lay up and then DOH), 4 is a tough 3 par that needs a 200+ yard club into the wind--no strategy other than hit and hope.  on the 5th I once stood for 30 minutes in a tournament on this visually spectacular tee.  It is two thoughtless hacks to a stupidly enlarged green.  6 was a good hole when OTM designed it.  The new T Simpson one is more interesting, but less conducive to strategy  7 is quirky hit a good drive and then hit your second between the gial posts and hope you have tghe right yardage.  8 is a driver whacked straight or you are fucked.  9 has a great view from the tee but from there to 18 it is MEH? to me.  The fact that they have blown up and are changing most of the back 9 tells me that all is not fine in Cruden Bay.

They are moving the tenth tee and making a few changes to 16 green. With respect, that's not exactly 'the majority of the back nine'

Adam

I may have been exaggerating, but I think they have been screwing around with the back nine for several years now, including the building of a new 9th green, and new 19th hole between 12 and 13 and changes to 14 and 15.  You're in the business of knowing these things and I'm just an observer.  Where am I wrong?

Rich

[Rich Goodale]

Rich, I'm pleased to see Carnoustie in the top 10.   I thought it was fantastic and nowhere near the brute it is purported to be.

Please tell me you have The Old Course at 11th.  To see it grouped with Trump International is bold stuff indeed.  Are you well?

I take it you have not been to Sunningdale and Walton Health.  Please go immediately.

Kindest regards,

Bogey

My friend

I am well, but I fear that If I ever play Sunningdales (new, old and/or putting green) or either Heaths of Walton, TOC may be thrown into the front of my 3rd 10 bus.    Great experience, but far better golf in GBI, IMHO.  i think I've articulated this opinion many times on this web site.

Rich

[Jason Topp]

You write the book on the Old Course and then put it in the second 10?  Explain please.

[Gary Slatter]

Rich, you have been on a great journey and I am jealous.  I can't really come up with a top 10, always seem to merge the top 30 into one group, depending upon how I felt when I played the third time.
I know you were about to put TORRANCE in the 11th group!

[Adam Lawrence]

2.  As for the main course, it is an average opener, 2 is extremely goofy even for very low handicap players, 3 is a good challenge if you can hit a driver 300 yards through a 20 yard gap (otherwise you lay up and then DOH), 4 is a tough 3 par that needs a 200+ yard club into the wind--no strategy other than hit and hope.  on the 5th I once stood for 30 minutes in a tournament on this visually spectacular tee.  It is two thoughtless hacks to a stupidly enlarged green.  6 was a good hole when OTM designed it.  The new T Simpson one is more interesting, but less conducive to strategy  7 is quirky hit a good drive and then hit your second between the gial posts and hope you have tghe right yardage.  8 is a driver whacked straight or you are fucked.  9 has a great view from the tee but from there to 18 it is MEH? to me.  The fact that they have blown up and are changing most of the back 9 tells me that all is not fine in Cruden Bay.

They are moving the tenth tee and making a few changes to 16 green. With respect, that's not exactly 'the majority of the back nine'

Adam

I may have been exaggerating, but I think they have been screwing around with the back nine for several years now, including the building of a new 9th green, and new 19th hole between 12 and 13 and changes to 14 and 15.  You're in the business of knowing these things and I'm just an observer.  Where am I wrong?

Rich

Technically the ninth isn't on the back nine 

[Rich Goodale]

You write the book on the Old Course and then put it in the second 10?  Explain please.
[/quote

Hi Jason

They paid me to write the book.  They did not pay me to write anything I did not believe.

Hope to set you in Scotland again soon.

Rich

[Rich Goodale]

Technically the ninth isn't on the back nine 
[/quote]

Adam

We all know that CB is quirky.

Rich

[Jason Topp]

You write the book on the Old Course and then put it in the second 10?  Explain please.
[/quote

Hi Jason

They paid me to write the book.  They did not pay me to write anything I did not believe.

Hope to set you in Scotland again soon.

Rich

Me too!

[Dan Kelly]

Rich --

If only I were in any position to argue with you!

Dan