[Patrick_Mucci]

What can be done to enhance their defenses without unduly burdening the mediocre to poor golfer ?

[Steve Burrows]

Not every golf hole needs to be made longer.  Not every golf hole needs to be tighter.  Not every hole needs to be enhanced.  It's OK to have a "breather" hole from time-to-time.  Good players are going to have a reasonable chance at birdie on a short hole irrespective of the way it is being defended.  And bad players...well, why not just leave them a hole every now and then that they can handle?

[Bill_McBride]

#6 at the Valley Club of Montecito is a good example of Steve's point.  It's a straight 290 yards.  You stand on the tee thinking is would be very disappointing not to make birdie.  There's a cross bunker but it's not much of a carry.  Then you get to the green and it's a slippery devil, steeply sloped back to front and left to right.  There are no guaranteed two putts.   It's an easy par and reasonable birdie opportunity, but many times you walk off the green shaking your head, wondering why you're writing 5 or 6 on the card. 

There is nowhere to push the tee back but that's okay, it's a good hole.

I heard that Fred Couples eagled the hole once and lost!

[jeffwarne]

What's a land locked hole?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,

If it's land locked it can't be made longer.

Bill,

It would appear that # 6 at the Valley Club has adequate defense at the green.

Now, can we get back on topic instead of trying to derail the thread

[Tom_Doak]

One of the great Alister MacKenzie observations that has been largely ignored is that shortening a hole could affect it positively, instead of negatively.  The 6th at The Valley Club is a good example, but there are lots of others. 

The idea that making a hole longer makes it better, or that every hole was just the right length when it was built, is the fallacy that has caused so many redesigns and restorations to move a course backwards instead of forwards.

Sometimes a "landlocked" hole offers a key feature to work with that the original designer ignored, because it was out of play in his day.  But the best solution for such holes is acceptance.

[jeffwarne]

One of the great Alister MacKenzie observations that has been largely ignored is that shortening a hole could affect it positively, instead of negatively.  The 6th at The Valley Club is a good example, but there are lots of others.  

well given that we've shortened 9-11 holes at The Bridge, depending upon which tee you play, that certainly makes me feel better.
Not always on purpose, just where the best shortcuts, variety, angles. and often lanforms were presented.
a couple got longer on purpose, to accent their diversity.

Sorry for the threadjack Patrick, as we're definitely not landlocked

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff:

The other part of the MacKenzie quote was that if it was a bad hole, at least shortening it would get it over with more quickly. 

[Bill_McBride]

Steve,

If it's land locked it can't be made longer.

Bill,

It would appear that # 6 at the Valley Club has adequate defense at the green.

Now, can we get back on topic instead of trying to derail the thread

So you were only looking for defenses other than green side?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve,

If it's land locked it can't be made longer.

Bill,

It would appear that # 6 at the Valley Club has adequate defense at the green.

Now, can we get back on topic instead of trying to derail the thread

So you were only looking for defenses other than green side?

Bill,

I thought that the initial title and text provided sufficient clarity such that even a moron understood the context

[Bill_McBride]

Steve,

If it's land locked it can't be made longer.

Bill,

It would appear that # 6 at the Valley Club has adequate defense at the green.

Now, can we get back on topic instead of trying to derail the thread

So you were only looking for defenses other than green side?

Bill,

I thought that the initial title and text provided sufficient clarity such that even a moron understood the context

No.   The title is "land locked holes."    You don't seem interested in a dastardly green as a defense.  Sometimes you expect your morons to be Karnaks. 

[Mark Saltzman]

Pat, I think something like the centreline bunker on 5 at Southampton is a great thing to do.  Tons and tons of room to play short of the bunker or tack around it, but adds a level of thinking and difficulty for the better golfer trying to get near the green looking to make birdie.

So I guess a feature that guards against the aggressive play while allowing the golfer ample room to play cautiously.  Hard birdie, easy par?

[Niall C]

With regards to shortening a hole to make it better, I often thought that perhaps the appeal of the classic courses today is that the holes have effectively become shorter over time as technology improves. I wonder what we would have made of them back then when they played to the length they were intended to.

Niall

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat, I think something like the centreline bunker on 5 at Southampton is a great thing to do.  Tons and tons of room to play short of the bunker or tack around it, but adds a level of thinking and difficulty for the better golfer trying to get near the green looking to make birdie.

Mark,

I think that's a great example, especially since they had so much width to work with.

So I guess a feature that guards against the aggressive play while allowing the golfer ample room to play cautiously.  Hard birdie, easy par?

[Jason Topp]

One of the more successful efforts to do this I have experienced is where an architect simply put a bunker at the exact sport where I would otherwise try and land my tee shot.  Such bunkers create all sorts of interesting decisions with the best answer varying from day to day.

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