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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2015, 12:38:39 PM »
If designing courses with the land and core principles in mind, that will last the test of time, is considered mediocre, I'll take it.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2015, 12:39:02 PM »
I think what's more important is that he's getting a chance at a big-time American venue.  I like C&C and Doak as much as the next guy, but variety is the spice of life.   Maybe it will be great, maybe it will be awful.  

Since he is slated to do one or more courses for Bandon guests to play, I'm wondering why that's not "big-time". ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2015, 12:41:38 PM »
Castle Stuart!

http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/scotland/castle-stuart-golf-links/

That looks perfect, mediocre it is not.  Is it close to old classics?  What is the demographic that plays at a modern masterpiece in Scotland?  Thanks.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2015, 12:42:36 PM »
I think what's more important is that he's getting a chance at a big-time American venue.  I like C&C and Doak as much as the next guy, but variety is the spice of life.   Maybe it will be great, maybe it will be awful.  

Since he is slated to do one or more courses for Bandon guests to play, I'm wondering why that's not "big-time". ;)


Which one will come to fruition first?

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2015, 12:57:40 PM »
My opinion is:

1.  Rustic Canyon is good, and a great value.  Pastoral setting, spectacular in late spring with yellow (mustard?) flowers.  Nice use of a gently sloping valley, where one tends to lose a sense of uphill and downhill.  Sort of like Riviera, where everything plays a half club more or less than it looks.  Way better than the typical public course.

2.  Boston GC is a great course.  Its only flaw is the separation of the two nines by a road and a significant walk.  Excellent hole variety.  High geologic interest.  Quirky, artistic and magical.

 

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2015, 01:10:47 PM »
This whole thread is a blatant attempt by Kavanaugh to get me to bite on Craighead and Castle Stuart, two quite nice but over rated courses if ever there were, but I refuse to.........oh, damn !

Niall

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2015, 01:21:26 PM »
John,

I am  certain that if you were to play Boston Golf Club you would blush for ever even thinking of this thread. Echoing what the other JK states above, it is a tremendous golf course. Nothing mediocre about it. #instantclassic


Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2015, 01:28:06 PM »
Trolls gonna troll.

Interesting, would you label Mike Keiser a troll if he were to state, not ask, basically the same?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2015, 01:33:49 PM »
Here is a nice review of Boston Golf Club.  If this course does not use green side fans to protect the turf I will declare it the finest engineering modern masterpiece built in recent years.  http://www.golftripper.com/boston-golf-club/

Jeff Spittel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2015, 01:36:16 PM »
Boston Golf is the shiz. I can't think of a more impressive homage to Pine Valley.
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2015, 02:20:18 PM »
I think what's more important is that he's getting a chance at a big-time American venue.  I like C&C and Doak as much as the next guy, but variety is the spice of life.   Maybe it will be great, maybe it will be awful.  

Since he is slated to do one or more courses for Bandon guests to play, I'm wondering why that's not "big-time". ;)


Which one will come to fruition first?

Which one did he first do a routing for? ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mark Pritchett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2015, 02:29:32 PM »
What Gil was able to do at Boston Golf was nothing short of amazing.  It has some unique holes that really stand out.  I think one could play there everyday and never get bored. 

Obviously the short Par 4 fifth which as memory serves is a little over 300 yards (Shipwreck) is the most renowned hole and rightfully so as it is a good use of blindness and plays to a bunkerless green.  The course also boasts a collection of strong Par 3's as well as interesting greens throughout the course. 

 


John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2015, 02:32:04 PM »
What Gil was able to do at Boston Golf was nothing short of amazing.  It has some unique holes that really stand out.  I think one could play there everyday and never get bored. 

Obviously the short Par 4 fifth which as memory serves is a little over 300 yards (Shipwreck) is the most renowned hole and rightfully so as it is a good use of blindness and plays to a bunkerless green.  The course also boasts a collection of strong Par 3's as well as interesting greens throughout the course. 

 



To do all that on a walking only course sounds amazing.  Starting to get the love.

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gill Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2015, 02:37:23 PM »
What has Gill Hanse done besides sell mediocre courses to outstanding clients? 
With a loaded (and incorrect) question like that there is no answer that would suffice.

"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible."
St. Thomas Aquinas
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Robert Mercer Deruntz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2015, 02:42:16 PM »
This thread is a classic example of personal subjectivity and too much time coming to fruition.  I have been fortunate to see Gil's early and current restoration work over the past 20+ years.  His attention to detail is superb.
For his body of designed courses, he did not begin with great properties, but created really good courses.  Rustic Canyon was his first really good piece of land and I rank it as the 3rd best course in SoCal.  It is great enough for a few of us to drive 3 hours regularly to play!  

Peter Pallotta

Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2015, 02:52:45 PM »
40 responses (including mine) in a couple of hours, on a nothing thread -- the Woody Allen one was far better. So, off of David's Thomistic sentiments, two more:

Ecce gca.com

Quid est omnis caritas JK?

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2015, 03:58:50 PM »
Hi,

I appreciate and think well of Gil Hanse owing to these reasons:

1. His restoration works on some of the classic courses (Fenway, Quaker and Sleepy Hollow) I visit or work or play almost every season is so unerringly "elevating," from what they were or had become, that analogies are inadequate...though perhaps his work on WFE is best described as like George Martin making a 15th wonderful Beatles album of out of unreleased and remastered material. In concert with the tree program begun in 1999-2001, continued judiciously through the current day, Hanse's work at WFE from the first work of green margin recovery to the latest (almost full) restoration of hole and hazard presentation (ongoing on the back "8" as we speak) is the closest you can come to deserving a shared credit with guy dead 80 years or so. I'm certain this Hanse restored East, could, with the usual USGA bullshit, be engineered to host any type of event, including a Mens' open, but the logistics of the site for modern hosting and the natural reticence to use the West for any meaningful part of it, preclude such a choice. But the course is worthy in such a presentation, and Hanse in uncovering original design has revealed how much more of a fun challenge the East is, while the West is more grim and stoic. The East has a great deal more whimsy and amusing charm interspersed in its ferocious holes and Hanse has brought that out in spades. So restoration is one reason for my love.

2. The second reason is MF's post, to which I don't need to add much. I played Tallgrass once in 2005, and it really is the only public course, along with Yale, I'm interested in showing friends/golfers who haven't seen one of them.

With Tallgrass, I think he designed the second best public golf course on Long Island. Maybe even first best since I'd probably rather play it more often than BPB. While every hole isn't a home run, as a whole it's an extremely fun course that contains almost everything we tend to value: walkability, variety, strategy, generous playing corridors, and well-positioned, well-contoured greens that add adequate challenge to its 6500 max length. There are devilish short par 4's and long blind par 3's. There are solid risk/reward par 5's. It makes creative use of a relatively flat site, and it has nods to minimalism, quirk, and template-based design.

3. I've had three occasion to make his acquaintance and heard others, whom I respect, report similarly...he's a decent person and strikes you as the kind of person you wish we had as elected representatives more frequently, though poltics does corrupt even the good I suppose. That doesn't mean he deserves any special acclaim in pure architectural terms, but when his work is of such quality and thoughtful application, you tend to think that maybe good character has something to do with good work.

Those are three reasons I am eager to see his work and ready to see the best in it.

cheers

vk
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 05:57:37 PM by V. Kmetz »
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2015, 04:27:16 PM »
Here is a nice review of Boston Golf Club.  If this course does not use green side fans to protect the turf I will declare it the finest engineering modern masterpiece built in recent years.  http://www.golftripper.com/boston-golf-club/

So Gil went from a seller of mediocre golf courses to a builder of modern masterpieces and all it took was an anonymous review on the web.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2015, 05:42:28 PM »
Here is a nice review of Boston Golf Club.  If this course does not use green side fans to protect the turf I will declare it the finest engineering modern masterpiece built in recent years.  http://www.golftripper.com/boston-golf-club/

So Gil went from a seller of mediocre golf courses to a builder of modern masterpieces and all it took was an anonymous review on the web.

David,

I based my opinion of BGC being an engineering masterpiece on the pictures in the review. I have not seen another modern course with those green settings that is not using green side fans to guarantee growth. If true the world needs to beat a path to their door and find out what was done right. This course is the first that I have seen in a long time that gives me hope.

I started this thread asking a question that I did not have the answer. I think I get it now.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2015, 06:07:46 PM »
Fully agree about the Craighead.  If there is a more bland piece of land leading down to the sea it would be hard to find. The course is interesting and intriguing. Love how Gil used the ha ha's.

John Cowden

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2015, 09:09:51 PM »
Methinks the premises contained in the question asked have been thoroughly debunked. 

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2015, 09:32:22 PM »
Interesting to read how some answered the question with the intent of giving Gil much deserved props while enlightening JK, while others chose to be offended by the question.

Gil is knowledgeable, talented as a shaper, and a genuine nice guy. I, unfortunately, have only played Rustic Canyon,...I wish I had time to see more of their work.

There will always be others who are waiting for, and probably deserve, the great gigs, but Gil, Jim Wagner and their team have worked long and hard to get where they currently find themselves.

Joe
« Last Edit: January 22, 2015, 08:06:19 PM by Joe Hancock »
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2015, 09:36:39 PM »
I can't imagine anyone here thinking Rustic Canyon is anything but the perfect GCA public course. F and F, tons of options, great strategy and a minimalist design. I've only played it once but could see playing it all the time if I lived out there. And it's a bargain. I haven't played any other Hanse course but RC certainly impressed me.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2015, 09:54:04 PM »
I can only remember one hole at Rustic but I recall every shot at Riviera. Rustic was a pioneer in the current value based minimalist movement. It is an important course but far short of a great one.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gil Hanse - Why the Love?
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2015, 10:06:36 PM »
John,

Next time you drive down to LSU with your golf clubs take 65 to Birmingham and stop to play the Capstone Club. I found the course to be well worth the drive (4hrs) with a number of excellent holes. I would love to have a course of this quality where I live.


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