Top 10 courses on no list one can learn from

[jeffwarne]

or for lack of a better qualifier,
10 courses worth playing not on any list

not in any order

1.Mulranny-width, sustainability, creativity, interest, scenery, variety, playability
2.Cape Arundel-The greens!, playability, charm
3.Goat Hill-width, creativity, sustainability, ground game, imagination, playability, greensites running away
4.Gweedore-WIDTH!!!, scenery, sustainability, creativity, playability
5.Northwest-suoer compact routing, variety, charm, playability
6.St. George's LI(maybe on a GW list) wow!, greens, imagination, variety
6. replacement for St. George's if ineleigible Glen Head-ditto
7.Apawamis-greens!, compact, undulation, charm
8.Dunfanaghy compact, variety, scenery, ground game
9.Aiken GC  a model for most munis
10. Athens CC  classic Ross-(edit heard that's been vaporized )
    so Camden it is at 10

Note: Augusta CC, Southampton, and Palmetto(my 3 home clubs) would have made the list years ago but they've been discovered and may well be on classic lists

[Joe Bausch]

I've only played 2 of your 11 Jeff, and I love your concise descriptions of each (St. George's and Apawamis). 

These photo albums are both from a few years back at least, but both pretty good in showing what they offer:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/StGeorges/

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Apawamis/

[Paul Gray]

As is my standard response to any such question, New Forest Golf Club.

[Ed Homsey]

I would "second" the nomination of Cape Arundel.  A Travis classic beautifully restored by Renaissance Golf.

I'd add a Ross classic:  Teugaga CC.  Great landscape, routing, greens, potential

[J_ Crisham]

Kebo Valley, Cedar Rapids CC, Davenport CC, Big Foot CC, West Bend CC-     Classic gems that are off the beaten path but you walk off the course thinking wow! Golf as it was meant to be- fun!

[jeffwarne]

forgot about Kebo!
same trip also North Haven-9 holer in Islands of Maine recommeneded to me by Mike Sweeney-great variety of width , remote!

[Keith OHalloran]

Jeff,
Rivermont in GA would be one. It was completely redesigned without changing the routing. I think you could learn a lot from the process and how they made the course better. It has a great set of greens, it is wide where it can be, and it is run properly. I mentioned on another thread, it has routing restrictions, but they hit a home run within those restrictions, and people could learn that there is always potential for improvement.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,
Rivermont in GA would be one. It was completely redesigned without changing the routing. I think you could learn a lot from the process and how they made the course better. It has a great set of greens, it is wide where it can be, and it is run properly. I mentioned on another thread, it has routing restrictions, but they hit a home run within those restrictions, and people could learn that there is always potential for improvement.

Rivermont looks fantastic. especially given the wasteland that is generally Atlanta residential golf

[Mark Pritchett]

Little Marion (MA) and Great Dunes (GA) are both worth a visit for some things you certainly do not see everyday (in a good way).  

[Rees Milikin]

Lake Lure 9 hole course.  Excellent routing, cheap, and pretty wide open.  I hope to do a course tour soon.

[Keith OHalloran]

Jeff,
True!
Although I have not been there, perhaps we should add Sweetens Cove. Again, a lesson in how to revitalize a course, it is 9 holes which may be a trend, and from what I hear has amazing greens.

[jeffwarne]

Little Marion (MA) and Great Dunes (GA) are both worth a visit for some things you certainly do not see everyday (in a good way).  

Mark,
Jekyl is a place that certainly doesn't get enough respect. 63 holes?
I used to drive over there to play a lot when I worked at Sea island
The 9 holer is cool

Little Merion I played twice about 5 years apart- the second time I guess my expectations were too high but some interesting stuff-still haven't figured out how to play #2
Played it after a qualifier at Kittansett-which may well belong on my list if it's not ranked(maybe I need a "Not Top 100 Top 100 )

Keith,
my guess is Sweetens may end up on a list -sounds and looks fantastic

[Brad Tufts]

CC of Greenfield, MA...railroad tracks, glacial rock features, old timey feel
Glens Falls, NY....wild undulation, the GCA darling of late!
JP Larkin, VT (9)...fun 9 on three levels right near the Conn. River
Penobscot Valley, ME...restored Ross, but with some new ideas
St. Johnsbury, VT...wild routing with an old 9 and a new 9
Wachusett, MA...rollicking, scoreable Ross
Wahconah, MA...well-conditioned Stiles with a laid-back feel
Shennecossett, CT...A Ross mail-in plus a renovation that kept the Golden Age feel
Aroostook Valley CC, ME...history, fun, gambling par 5s, low-key, can hook it from Canada to the US OB left on #1&#2
Rutland CC, VT...what a punch packed into 6100y...including a 245y par three!
Northeast Harbor, ME...only 5500 yards, the "Middle Earth" of golf courses, feels like a walk in the woods without being claustrophobic, the wooden clubhouse has no heat!

Some GEMS in there.  Cape Arundel is a classic example, but already mentioned above.

[Tim_Weiman]

Jeff,

I would nominate Little Met, a 9 hole course that is part of Cleveland's Metropark System. Little Met is no Sleepy Hollow (a Stanley Thompson design where Charlie Sifford used to hang out) nor is it Manikiki (a Donald Ross design). In fact, I'd say Little Met may not have anything of architectural interest.......except that it is an excellent place to observe what it is like to learn the game of golf and why we need more places like it.

[C. Sturges]

Tim,

I never would have believed my eyes that Little Met is mentioned on GCA!  Now it is a very basic course, but does have some fun holes.  Not sure if Stanley Thompson would recognize the course as it was basic and has been "dumbed" down to make it easier for new and beginner golfers.  The course was quickly built and opened while Thompson was building Big Met for the Cleveland Metro Parks.
chris

[Stephen Pellegrino]

•Dunbar - Proof that you can pack a boatload of fun into narrow spaces.
•John's Island West - An underrated Fazio with wonderful par 5s and elevation changes (in Florida!). Walkable to boot...
•Wianno - Why chase 7,500 yards when 6,000 yards can be so fun...
•Shinnecock Hills (Short Course) - Proof that a lay of the land pitch and putt is sometimes the best use of extra space.

-Stephen

[James Boon]

As is my standard response to any such question, New Forest Golf Club.

Paul,

My apologies if this is your standard response, but I dont recall any reference to this course in the past. A quick look on Google Maps has me interested?

Can you tell me any more, and what exactly is it possible to learn from the course?

Cheers,

James

[Brent Hutto]

My new home course, Camden Country Club (W. Travis, D. Ross, K. Spence, et. al.) isn't on many lists. But from it you can learn to chip the ball very precisely. Or else learn how to write down numbers on the scorecard with which you are unfamiliar.

[jeffwarne]

My new home course, Camden Country Club (W. Travis, D. Ross, K. Spence, et. al.) isn't on many lists. But from it you can learn to chip the ball very precisely. Or else learn how to write down numbers on the scorecard with which you are unfamiliar.

Nice Brent-good move.
You can definitely learn stuff there-especially about where NOT to miss it (which I usually figure out as I leave the hole )

It was on my list also but I had to bump it for Athens CC, but frankly Camden is more my kind've place with Styrofoam cups and all.
need to lengthen my list

[Brent Hutto]

At the risk of overstaying my post-a-day welcome...

That's the problem with lists. They tend to grow like rough in June.

[Garland Bayley]

or for lack of a better qualifier,
10 courses worth playing not on any list

not in any order

1.Mulranny-width, sustainability, creativity, interest, scenery, variety, playability
...

Jeff,

Perhaps you are being a little to brief here. For example, may one conclude that without a scenic site one should not build a course? Or, no courses should be built that require irrigation as they may ultimately be unsustainable?

[BCowan]

Jeff,

   great thread.

1. Tiffin Mohawk (Ross on great land) play back 9 twice, is semi-private now
2. Ottawa Park - SP Jermain claims it is oldest public course west of New York (OP is the spot for emergency 9 in Toledo)
3. Roseland park- Ross muni in windsor, heck when you are 19 you can legally drink beer.  and hearing the Canadians say ay never gets old
4. Sweetens cove- its already been said and people thought Streamsong was only ROI model out there.
5. Ocala Golf club- my favorite Fl track
6. CC of Silver springs- muirhead course in middle of nowhere, one of the few only courses that I didn't mind the water (carts only)  lots of quirk
7. mountbuilders- don't know if it is still open, cool with all the Indian burial mounds surrounding the greens.
8. southern pines- the course is very very good, you can tell most people are maint. whores as to why this isn't on a list

2015 wish list
9.  Goat Hill
10. Gardiners Bay

[Mark McKeever]

Here is my list:

Schuylkill CC - GREAT set of late career Ross/Park Jr. greens
Manufacturers G&CC - Maybe the best Flynn course in Philadelphia  
Morris County GC - Some awesome McRaynorBanks template holes (notables: Double Plateau, Short, Reverse Redan)
Dedham Country & Polo Club - Same as above (notables: Alps and Maiden, Road)

[BHoover]

Fowler's Mill in Chesterland, OH east of Cleveland. It's a very good example of early Pete Dye work. Reminiscent of his work at places like The Golf Club and Crooked Stick. Several strategic uses of railroad ties, split fairways, among other features.

Based on comments in a prior thread, I think I've been blackballed from ever playing The Goat. 

[jeffwarne]

Fowler's Mill in Chesterland, OH east of Cleveland. It's a very good example of early Pete Dye work. Reminiscent of his work at places like The Golf Club and Crooked Stick. Several strategic uses of railroad ties, split fairways, among other features.

Based on comments in a prior thread, I think I've been blackballed from ever playing The Goat. 

Brian,
The Goat has split fairways, just not on purpose
We've blackballed a lot of people, but we forgive them if they pay their greens and entry fee as we're too unorganized (or something) to keep track of  the blackballs.