Are there any golf courses aided by the cart?

[Sven Nilsen]

Sven,

   There were many private clubs in the South prior to golf carts.  The wealthy southerns go to the mountains in the summer time.  You are trying to say that there were no/or few public courses in the south prior to golf carts?

Ben:

I'm trying to give some context to how golf started in the south, and what their golf season looked like.  Your point about where they played in the summer is spot on.

I used the word "primarily" for a reason.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland:

Your comment dealt with the time period before the invention if carts.  Back then golf was primarily played by those with means, this was especially so at the southern resorts.

Sven

Your apparently missed the thread(s) about the golf boom amongst the masses long before there were carts.

[Josh Tarble]

Are there any courses that HAVEN'T been aided by carts, or wouldn't be aided by allowing them at least in selective circumstances?

You could probably make the case the Whistling Straits and Bandon have both been aided by not allowing carts.  I believe they were among the first modern resorts to be walking only. 

[Mark Pearce]

Are there any courses that HAVEN'T been aided by carts, or wouldn't be aided by allowing them at least in selective circumstances?

Most classic courses.  Unless the circumstances you refer to are personal health issues.

[BCrosby]

BCowan -

Few buildings in the South were air conditioned until sometime in the '50's. People still went to work.

Now that those buildings are all air conditioned, they are much more pleasant to work in. We have given up the fresh air that wafts through open windows; you can't hear the birds chirping outside; colds/flu will spread more easily in enclosed spaces; some find the air too dry; etc., but no one wants to do away with air conditioning.

Parallels with golf carts should be obvious. There are purists out there who think they should be eliminated for aesthetic and other intangible reasons. I have considerable sympathy with that view. But except for a few nut cases here at GCA, no one takes such views seriously. So let's stop beating ourselves up and move on to more useful topics.

Bob

[BCowan]

BCowan -

Few buildings in the South were air conditioned until sometime in the '50's. People still went to work.

Now that those buildings are all air conditioned, they are much more pleasant to work in. We have given up the fresh air that wafts through open windows; you can't hear the birds chirping outside; colds/flu will spread more easily in enclosed spaces; some find the air too dry; etc., but no one wants to do away with air conditioning.

Parallels with golf carts should be obvious. There are purists out there who think they should be eliminated for aesthetic and other intangible reasons. I have considerable sympathy with that view. But except for a few nut cases here at GCA, no one takes such views seriously. So let's stop beating ourselves up and move on to more useful topics.

Bob

Please state where i said golf carts should be eliminated???  There are many people who aren't into GCA that walk the course, when was the last time you have been to a muni?  Of course there are people who walk until the temp get above 90 deg and they ride.  The bigger picture is respecting the ''spirit of the game''.  It is no surprise that obesity is a big issue these days.  Being inside without air conditioning is hardly a good comparison.  We have air conditioning up north, and courses where walking is encouraged.  The problem is places that ban Walking, consider walkers slow.  Which is the opposite in my opinion, speeds play up.  Half the top ten public courses in metro Detroit don't allow walking.  That is a big issue.

[BCrosby]

When arguing for walking rights, you will find that basing your argument on the ''spirit of the game'' is a non-starter. At least out there in the real world.

Non-walking courses exist not because owners don't understand the "spirit of the game". It is usually for two related reasons: 1. a significant  number of people would not play without carts, and 2. the fleet of carts needed to keep them returning to the course must be financed through cart fees. Fewer cart fees means fewer carts, means fewer people paying green fees.

Even a small reduction in cart usage can have a huge impact on a course's ability to service its debt on a fleet of carts. It is a vicious cycle that should trouble us all, but it is what it is.   

It is not that course operators require carts because they don't understand the spirit of golf d'antin; it's almost always related to meeting their debt service obligations. Other rationales the course operator serves up to you are usually (though I guess not always) meant to hide that fact.

Bob

[Carl Rogers]

I wanted this thread to be about the golf courses and not the relative-selective morality of the golfers using carts .... alas the laws of unintended consequences ....

[BCowan]

''Non-walking courses exist not because owners don't understand the "spirit of the game". It is usually for two related reasons: 1. a significant  number of people would not play without carts, and 2. the fleet of carts needed to keep them returning to the course must be financed through cart fees. Fewer cart fees means fewer carts, means fewer people paying green fees.''

There are many public courses that charge the same whether you walk or ride.  Which is fine by me in public golf, though it doesn't need to be done.  Walkers paying for carts at public courses and not using them means less wear and tear on the golf carts.  

No, lack of understanding Spirit of the Game is a big issue.  Golf was founded as a walking game.  I have real world experience in working at a conveyer belt cart baller track.  You are struggling to grasp what I am saying or you are just twisting what i am saying.  Please find where i said Golf carts shouldn't be allowed?  I stated walking should be encouraged, instead it is frowned upon by the ''Revenue'' crowd, that overlooks unneeded other expenses.  

Carl,   

Please tell Bob and others to stop misrepresenting pro walkers

[Mark Pritchett]

Ben, it must be nice to be the one who gets to define the "Spirit of the Game". 

[BCowan]

Mark,

   I don't define anything.  I just honor the people who carried on traditions of the game in which I love.  I believe Conserving is progress, not the other way around. 

[Sven Nilsen]

Garland:

Your comment dealt with the time period before the invention if carts.  Back then golf was primarily played by those with means, this was especially so at the southern resorts.

Sven

Your apparently missed the thread(s) about the golf boom amongst the masses long before there were carts.

Garland:

I didn't miss those threads, I started a few of them.

I've also read just about every Golfers Magazine, Golf Magazine, American Golfer and Golf Illustrated put out before 1930, as well as each of the Annual Guides.  Golf started in this country as a club sport.  Public golf followed, but not to the extent of the private and resort development.  This was especially so in the South.  If you'd like the numbers, I have the hard data to prove the point.

The point here had to do with golf thriving in hot climates before the invention of the cart.  It thrived in those climates during their cooler months.  There's a reason pro's from northern clubs were going south in the winter, that's when the clubs and courses down there were open.

Sven

[Mark Pritchett]

Mark,

   I don't define anything.  I just honor the people who carried on traditions of the game in which I love.  I believe Conserving is progress, not the other way around. 

Correct, the traditions that YOU love.  Did you ever consider that some people may not love the same traditions you do?

[Terry Lavin]

Pretty much every course I've ever enjoyed has been aided by a cart for the second round of the day.

[Mark Pritchett]

Spot on Judge!

[BCowan]

Mark,

   I don't define anything.  I just honor the people who carried on traditions of the game in which I love.  I believe Conserving is progress, not the other way around.  

Correct, the traditions that YOU love.  Did you ever consider that some people may not love the same traditions you do?

''Nobody is bigger than the game of Golf'', I get it, you don't understand this.  People not respecting traditions of Golf, will lead to Golf's demise.  You don't even know what the heck you are arguing about.   

I bet the first round was enjoyed with a caddie or the course was routing for walking 96%+ of the time

[Jamey Bryan]

Although I’ve scratched my head previously regarding some of this character’s posts, I cannot let this one go without response.  Anyone who even suggests that Mark Pritchett does not “get it” is beyond moronic (with apologies to Pat for the trademark infringement).  Ben, I suggest you limit your vitriol to those who you know personally or whose previous posts you’ve taken the time to read.

Jamey

[BHoover]

If you want to play as many holes as possible before dark, a cart helps on pretty much every course you can find.

[Terry Lavin]

In fact, one of my favorite rounds ever was when I played Pinehurst #1 in the afternoon, after having my head handed to me on #2 in the morning.  In the afternoon, we needed relaxation and medicine.  That translated to carts, bags of beer, cigars and an easy golf course.  Is the course walkable?  Duh, maybe the most walkable ever built.  Would I rather walk than ride?  Darn right I would.  Would I walk it as a second round of the day?  NFW.  I'd rather head to the spa, but the carts allowed us to have another four hours on a great, old golf course.

[Mark Pearce]

I have never enjoyed a round on a walkable course in a cart as much as a round on the same course walking.  I simply don't feel I'm as exposed to the course, or get as good a feel for the course when I'm in a cart.  I also don't enjoy the game as much, the rhythm simply doesn't feel right.  That's why I will always choose to walk when given the choice, all things being equal.

That said, of course there are courses or conditions that require a cart to be playable.  I played golf in Spain in October last year for the first time.  Most of the courses we played I simply wouldn't have played on foot.  To me any course, no matter how good the holes, that needs a cart to be playable will struggle to be a favourite for the reasons above.  If I lived in the Southern USA I'm sure I would play golf in a cart in Summer.  I simply wouldn't enjoy it as much as cooler weather golf at other times of year.  Similarly, I don't enjoy winter golf in the UK as much as the Spring, Summer and Autumn but I still play.

I don't think proper competitive golf can be played in a buggy, however.  Golf is a sport and part of that sport is the walk.  For me that applies at any level.  My club now has a couple of buggies.  They rarely get used.  Anyone winning a monthly medal in one is not, in my book, a proper winner.

[Garland Bayley]

If you want to play as many holes as possible before dark, a cart helps on pretty much every course you can find.

There are huge numbers of golfers that can get around on foot faster than you can in a cart if the 90 degree rule is honored.
The problem I see here is that there are a lot of one sided thinkers here espousing/insisting on their reality, which is often expressed in a fashion as to come across as vitriol towards someone who would think differently. They go so far as to label the different thinkers as being vitriolic. Just because someone has a different idea, and has trouble getting the point across to you, because you are not open to different lines of reasoning, it doesn't make them vitriolic.

[BHoover]

If you want to play as many holes as possible before dark, a cart helps on pretty much every course you can find.

There are huge numbers of golfers that can get around on foot faster than you can in a cart if the 90 degree rule is honored.
The problem I see here is that there are a lot of one sided thinkers here espousing/insisting on their reality, which is often expressed in a fashion as to come across as vitriol towards someone who would think differently. They go so far as to label the different thinkers as being vitriolic. Just because someone has a different idea, and has trouble getting the point across to you, because you are not open to different lines of reasoning, it doesn't make them vitriolic.

I don't disagree about how this debate too often leads to vitriol. I'd almost always prefer to walk as well. But if my intent is to play 54+ holes in a day, I'll ride.

[Garland Bayley]

If you want to play as many holes as possible before dark, a cart helps on pretty much every course you can find.

There are huge numbers of golfers that can get around on foot faster than you can in a cart if the 90 degree rule is honored.
The problem I see here is that there are a lot of one sided thinkers here espousing/insisting on their reality, which is often expressed in a fashion as to come across as vitriol towards someone who would think differently. They go so far as to label the different thinkers as being vitriolic. Just because someone has a different idea, and has trouble getting the point across to you, because you are not open to different lines of reasoning, it doesn't make them vitriolic.

I don't disagree about how this debate too often leads to vitriol. I'd almost always prefer to walk as well. But if my intent is to play 54+ holes in a day, I'll ride.

Clearly you aren't one of the website members who either do, or attempt to do 72 per day at Bandon.

[BHoover]

Garland, you are incorrect. I haven't yet had an opportunity to go to Bandon. If/when I can go, I will happily walk as many holes as possible. I'll be sure to let you know when I do.

[Sean Leary]

If you want to play as many holes as possible before dark, a cart helps on pretty much every course you can find.

There are huge numbers of golfers that can get around on foot faster than you can in a cart if the 90 degree rule is honored.

This is not true unless you only hit your tee ball 100 yards, which makes it the case for you but not everybody else...