Are there any golf courses aided by the cart?

[Terry Lavin]

And northern clubs don't close their doors for several (sometimes more) months in the winter?

I'm struggling to see the analogue. Is your suggestion Southern clubs only open the golf course when temperatures allow walking only? You're perilouly close to BCowan logic. Ignoring realities serves no purpose whatsoever.

I'll make it simple--name 5 walking only clubs,open year round, where July/August temperatures are normally mid 90's and above.

I know it's only January, but it's never too early for a "Post of the Year" nomination.

[C. Sturges]

Could we say the courses at Dismal River and Sandhill's are aided well by carts?  I would not want to walk to the course from either club house.  I have only had the opportunity to visit once, and saw no one walking at either course.  I would not want to walk 36 a day and then have to walk back in, I think carts are helpful in these two situations.
chris

[Carl Rogers]

So 1 conclusion is that in the American South, either live with the cart or kill the entire business model.  (From the Streamsong web site, there seems to be an option of walk or ride.)  Note the cart does not seem to help the courses with the experience, it helps the golfers survive the experience.

I have played some golf out in the Colorado Mountains (7 to 8 thousand feet above sea level) ... walking would be tough there.

Should Bandon Trails receive demerits for the ride from 13 green to 14 tee?

I assume that there are no courses in Australia & NZ that have carts.  From the pics and web site Cape Kidnappers looks like quite a hike. AU is a hot country this time of year, right?

[Chris Johnston]

Could we say the courses at Dismal River and Sandhill's are aided well by carts?  I would not want to walk to the course from either club house.  I have only had the opportunity to visit once, and saw no one walking at either course.  I would not want to walk 36 a day and then have to walk back in, I think carts are helpful in these two situations.
chris

Hard to imagine Dismal River or Sand Hills working without carts.  Logistics, multiple plays/day, and summer heat make them most useful and very necessary.  At both, carts are how one gets around.

[BCowan]

And northern clubs don't close their doors for several (sometimes more) months in the winter?

I'm struggling to see the analogue. Is your suggestion Southern clubs only open the golf course when temperatures allow walking only? You're perilouly close to BCowan logic. Ignoring realities serves no purpose whatsoever.

I'll make it simple--name 5 walking only clubs,open year round, where July/August temperatures are normally mid 90's and above.

Beyond hilarious.  When you can state how full your membership is and how old the avg member is, then maybe your logic as in real world experience can be evaluated.  You don't have to mention the name either.   You serving on boards means nothing.  I stated two courses that are 90% and 100% full.  One is member owned, other is quasi private.  I don't want to speak for Russ, but I am sure he simply implying that it would be nice if more modern courses where routed with walking in mind.  Please explain your realities JME???  Who is advocating walking only clubs? 

[Ruediger Meyer]

I'd throw Wolf Creek for the severity of the slopes into the mix (especially on hot summer days) and Le Toessrok in Mauritius since there's (I think literally) a mile between two holes. From what I heard the same is supposed to be true for Gary Player's Thracian Cliffs in Bulgaria

[Garland Bayley]

And northern clubs don't close their doors for several (sometimes more) months in the winter?

I'm struggling to see the analogue. Is your suggestion Southern clubs only open the golf course when temperatures allow walking only? You're perilouly close to BCowan logic. Ignoring realities serves no purpose whatsoever.

I'll make it simple--name 5 walking only clubs,open year round, where July/August temperatures are normally mid 90's and above.

This would be very easy to do if golf carts had not been invented. People would be walking and playing in those temperatures, because they love the game. They may be fewer courses, because people would not want to take up such a game. Or, there may be more courses, because golf wouldn't have a reputation as being for the type of people Bill Schulz described in the other thread.

[Garland Bayley]

And northern clubs don't close their doors for several (sometimes more) months in the winter?

I'm struggling to see the analogue. Is your suggestion Southern clubs only open the golf course when temperatures allow walking only? You're perilouly close to BCowan logic. Ignoring realities serves no purpose whatsoever.

I'll make it simple--name 5 walking only clubs,open year round, where July/August temperatures are normally mid 90's and above.

I know it's only January, but it's never too early for a "Post of the Year" nomination.

Seems a bit of a short sighted nomination.

[JMEvensky]

And northern clubs don't close their doors for several (sometimes more) months in the winter?

I'm struggling to see the analogue. Is your suggestion Southern clubs only open the golf course when temperatures allow walking only? You're perilouly close to BCowan logic. Ignoring realities serves no purpose whatsoever.

I'll make it simple--name 5 walking only clubs,open year round, where July/August temperatures are normally mid 90's and above.

This would be very easy to do if golf carts had not been invented. People would be walking and playing in those temperatures, because they love the game. They may be fewer courses, because people would not want to take up such a game. Or, there may be more courses, because golf wouldn't have a reputation as being for the type of people Bill Schulz described in the other thread.

In the real world,golf carts were invented and there's no alternate history--idyllic though it may be. So now what's your plan? You want to keep cursing the darkness?

[Garland Bayley]

And northern clubs don't close their doors for several (sometimes more) months in the winter?

I'm struggling to see the analogue. Is your suggestion Southern clubs only open the golf course when temperatures allow walking only? You're perilouly close to BCowan logic. Ignoring realities serves no purpose whatsoever.

I'll make it simple--name 5 walking only clubs,open year round, where July/August temperatures are normally mid 90's and above.

This would be very easy to do if golf carts had not been invented. People would be walking and playing in those temperatures, because they love the game. They may be fewer courses, because people would not want to take up such a game. Or, there may be more courses, because golf wouldn't have a reputation as being for the type of people Bill Schulz described in the other thread.

In the real world,golf carts were invented and there's no alternate history--idyllic though it may be. So now what's your plan? You want to keep cursing the darkness?

My point is that golf thrived in some hot climates before the invention of golf carts. People played in hot weather before the invention of golf carts. That is the real world. As was pointed out by a thread a couple of months ago, the first golf course in the US was in South Carolina. It doesn't get hot in South Carolina?

[Russ Arbuthnot]

My point is that golf thrived in some hot climates before the invention of golf carts.

That was my point as well. Thank you.

[Carl Rogers]

My point is that golf thrived in some hot climates before the invention of golf carts.

That was my point as well. Thank you.

100% true, but now everyone in the south has air conditioning

[JMEvensky]

My point is that golf thrived in some hot climates before the invention of golf carts. People played in hot weather before the invention of golf carts. That is the real world. As was pointed out by a thread a couple of months ago, the first golf course in the US was in South Carolina. It doesn't get hot in South Carolina?

We must have a different definition of thrived.

So if all these Southern clubs were thriving,why did they bring in golf carts? Did EZ Go and Club Car put guns to the memberships' heads? Having lived here all my life and having played golf here just about as long,golf carts were a welcome invention.

Was your Southern experience different from mine? As certain as you are of your facts, you must have been involved in private Southern clubs for a long time. Which of these clubs do you have first hand knowledge of?

[Jon Cavalier]

I disagree that carts are "here to stay", especially because the industry mandates them. The industry can be changed if attitudes change.

Regarding the architecture, architects and course owners should be thinking of alternative means of players getting from point A to B if walking is impractical. Does everyone on the ski slope get their own snowmobile to go back up the mountain? Of course not!

Regarding this excellent point, there are a few courses that have turned what could be a tough slog into a pleasurable walk in just this manner. Pittsburgh Field Club, with its unique 60 foot elevator from the 17th green to the 18th tee, and Manufacturers, with its cable car-like tram that takes golfers and their bags up the hill to the clubhouse (or the 18th green, depending on which is in use). These systems are an excellent way to encourage walking.

[Russ Arbuthnot]

Thank you Jon. The pretentiousness on GCA is off the charts! It's a wonder that golfers are stereotyped as an old, curmudgeonly bunch, despite my in-person experiences (particularly via GCA.) Big surprise that a post championing walking or simply playing if it's too hot, just as we don't/can't play when it is too cold, gets more responses than a thread I started asking a legitimate architecture question.

[Patrick_Mucci]

The Ridge at Back Brook, Sherwood and Caves Valley come to mind.

[Garland Bayley]

... Did EZ Go and Club Car put guns to the memberships' heads? ...

It's called marketing. Pretty much the same thing.
It's the only reason I can think of that Callaway, Taylor Made, etc. sell so many clubs. They have the "guns".

Other than that, most of your post made no sense given what I posted.

[JMEvensky]

... Did EZ Go and Club Car put guns to the memberships' heads? ...

It's called marketing. Pretty much the same thing.
It's the only reason I can think of that Callaway, Taylor Made, etc. sell so many clubs. They have the "guns".

Other than that, most of your post made no sense given what I posted.

Yeah you're right. That citation of a club in 1875 proved it. You really do know about this stuff.

[Jason Topp]

Carts allow the Ocean Course at Cabo del Sol to feature 7 holes along the ocean.  I doubt such a design would have been possible without the cart drive back at the end of the round.

[Jeff Shelman]

I enjoy walking. I think it improves the experience and I know it certainly is better for my game than riding.

I just got back from several days in Arizona and specifically chose to spend my green fees on courses where I could walk.

That said, carts are part of the game -- for good and for bad. They are necessary for some people to play the game and they are pretty much necessary for the economics of many of the courses and clubs we enjoy playing.

I would prefer to walk and I like to support courses/clubs that don't restrict walking, but I understand that carts are part of the deal.

[Sven Nilsen]

My point is that golf thrived in some hot climates before the invention of golf carts.

That was my point as well. Thank you.

It may have thrived, but it didn't thrive year round.  Northerners went south in the winter, not the summer, and early golf in the South was primarily based around resort play (Pinehurst, Augusta, Aiken, Asheville, almost all of Florida, etc.).

Golf carts enabled play during the warmer months when walking, while possible, would probably have been highly unenjoyable.

How many PGA Tour events today are scheduled in the South between June and August?

[Garland Bayley]

My point is that golf thrived in some hot climates before the invention of golf carts.

That was my point as well. Thank you.

It may have thrived, but it didn't thrive year round.  Northerners went south in the winter, not the summer, and early golf in the South was primarily based around resort play (Pinehurst, Augusta, Aiken, Asheville, almost all of Florida, etc.).

Golf carts enabled play during the warmer months when walking, while possible, would probably have been highly unenjoyable.

How many PGA Tour events today are scheduled in the South between June and August?

Your answer indicates that you equate the privileged class with the golfing class. Other people play golf too.

There have been U.S. Open Championships in OK and TX with temperatures over 100. Just because the PGA Tour chose to avoid the heat doesn't mean golf was not played.

[Jason Thurman]

Are there any courses that HAVEN'T been aided by carts, or wouldn't be aided by allowing them at least in selective circumstances?

[Sven Nilsen]

Garland:

Your comment dealt with the time period before the invention if carts.  Back then golf was primarily played by those with means, this was especially so at the southern resorts.

Sven

[BCowan]

Sven,

   There were many private clubs in the South prior to golf carts.  The wealthy southerns go to the mountains in the summer time.  You are trying to say that there were no/or few public courses in the south prior to golf carts?