Higher standards for GolfClubAtlas.com

[Ran Morrissett]

Age does horrible things. The jaw line softens, chins multiply, the waist expands. Now in its sixteenth year, GolfClubAtlas.com needs to be vigilant and steer clear of soft and flabby. Complacency won’t do. We must stay on top of things, mind the details and not deviate from best practices.
 
GolfClubAtlas.com is my hobby and while work, family, and outside interests distract, this web site was always intended to be ‘best of breed.’ Moving forward GolfClubAtlas.com will redouble its efforts to provide the best subject matter relating to golf course architecture. To that end, the ~ 15 worst ‘Courses by Country’ profiles and the ten least-viewed ‘In My Opinion’ pieces have been deleted. The volume of posts is being pared by ~ 10% from over 1100 pages of threads this past Tuesday to 1000. We are currently at 1024.
 
For 2015, we are going to hold the number of pages of threads at 1000. As new threads arise, weaker ones will be deleted. The goal is to ensure that the 50,000 topics covered within this Discussion group are of high relevance. Archiving threads that no one is going to revisit is nonsensical.
 
There is a host of reasons why threads will be deleted but primarily it will be a lack of relevance to the study of golf course architecture. New posters should stop introducing themselves; the spotlight is on golf architecture, not yourself. The thread's title needs to be clear regarding what someone can expect when they click on it; people are busy and they should not have to aimlessly click on threads to glean their content.  Off topic threads will be deleted at a quicker pace than in the past. For example, a recent thread on restaurants won't be around at year-end.
 
Those who regularly fail to meet this standard will find their accounts revoked. Without such periodic actions GolfClubAtlas.com inadvertently becomes home to the idle. The role of every poster is to assist in the furthering of knowledge related to golf course architecture. It is not to arrange your next tee time or kill the next fifteen minutes. Most web sites just want to churn traffic, not us. We have a stated purpose and everyone is expected to act in accordance with it. 
 
As we engineer this clean up, please help. We still have over one hundred photo threads in which the photo links are no longer active. Such threads have no value and represent clutter. If you find any please forward them to rmorrissett@cabotlinks for deletion.  Nobody likes wading through rubbish.
 
To be clear, GolfClubAtlas.com’s mission is to be the finest, most cogent resource for the discussion of golf architecture in the world. To fulfill that objective we need to behave professionally and in ways that encourage others to participate. After sixteen years and thousands of hours of work this site is just scratching the surface of its potential impact and influence.
 
We continue to experience amazing growth and the most trafficked months at GolfClubAtlas.com were the most recent two. During the first half of next year it is likely that more than 20,000 different devices will log in to GolfClubAtlas.com each day. Our fervent hope is that people see value in visiting the site and that our collective efforts will ensure that the best of GolfClubAtlas.com is yet to come.

Best,

[Ronald Montesano]

The thread's title needs to be clear regarding what someone can expect when they click on it; people are busy and they should not have to aimlessly click on threads to glean their content. 

Yay.

As Michael Eric Dyson said in a speech opening the 2014 People of Color Conference in Indianapolis this month, "I know I'm preaching to the choir, but even the choir has to rehearse."

Count on me in 2015 to be less distracted and more focused, oh Captain our Captain.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Hey, a Christmas scavenger hunt!

NLE course reviews
1. County Sligo: https://web.archive.org/web/20041205005915/http://www.golfclubatlas.com/sligo1.html
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[Ronald Montesano]

Hey, a Christmas scavenger hunt!

NLE course reviews
1. County Sligo: https://web.archive.org/web/20041205005915/http://www.golfclubatlas.com/sligo1.html
2. Royal Sid: https://web.archive.org/web/20041208000703/http://www.golfclubatlas.com/royalsydney1.html
3. Chung Shan: https://web.archive.org/web/20041207231733/http://www.golfclubatlas.com/southasia1.html
4. North Berwick West https://web.archive.org/web/20041205031423/http://www.golfclubatlas.com/northberwick1.html
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[Paul Gray]

The thread's title needs to be clear regarding what someone can expect when they click on it; people are busy and they should not have to aimlessly click on threads to glean their content. 

Yay.

As Michael Eric Dyson said in a speech opening the 2014 People of Color Conference in Indianapolis this month, "I know I'm preaching to the choir, but even the choir has to rehearse."

Count on me in 2015 to be less distracted and more focused, oh Captain our Captain.

+1

And very nice to hear Ran make reference to potential impact.

Shame about some of the reviews vanishing though.

[Joe Perches]

the ~ 15 worst ‘Courses by Country’ profiles and the ten least-viewed ‘In My Opinion’ pieces have been deleted.

That's unfortunate.
I think it would have been be more useful to have kept those in some new "archived articles" location.

We still have over one hundred photo threads in which the photo links are no longer active. Such threads have no value and represent clutter.

Photo threads are some of the best resources in this site.

Unfortunately, links get stale.

To keep the photographic tours available for a longer term, it'd be useful to have these golf course photo tour links automatically uploaded or cached by this website and the cached content made available via a new gca specific link.

[Tim Martin]

I have always been a fan of the photo threads but really don't see the need for 6 or 7 pictures of each hole. Additionally they should be quality photos of interesting vantage points with superior lighting,framing and composition. Some guys realize this while others just snap pictures and post away.

[Tim Martin]

I have always been a fan of the photo threads but really don't see the need for 6 or 7 pictures of each hole. Additionally they should be quality photos of interesting vantage points with superior lighting,framing and composition. Some guys realize this while others just snap pictures and post away.

One thing everyone should do is zoom in to eye level too (effectively zoom in all the way then maybe go back 2 or 3 zooms) - unzoomed in pics really distort what's there and makes courses look far more narrow than they really are.

I will say, that the deletion of some of the earlier Heathland photo threads by Paul Turner and co will be a loss. Some great commentary accompanied them - even if many of the comments were from the point of view of those who had just discovered Heathland golf - strangely, that fresh view is more interesting to me than the current threads where lots of us have now played most of them and we tend to granularly compare them to each other rather than other courses globally.

Your recent photo of Tralee in the Photo of the Year thread was wonderful. That's the kind of quality I was referencing in my post.

[Bill_McBride]

One thing that really eats up space is quoting a post full of photos so that all are displayed again. 

[Rick Shefchik]

One thing that really eats up space is quoting a post full of photos so that all are displayed again. 

Very good point, Bill. It's easy to edit out the photos if you just want to keep the comment(s) that accompanied them.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Ran,

One point worth mentioning. If you disable the links to the course reviews and selected threads, you will also potentially limit the functionality of the web based map in the best of golf section.

While I understand that the current version is static, something like that could be crowd-sourced and maintained, and I'll go on record as volunteering to start the process.

I think that has merit to all who find this site, to peruse the courses of the world, and have a ready starting point for further information.

[Tommy Naccarato]

Bravo Mr. Morrissett! 

Expect good things to come from this....

[Ronald Montesano]

I have always been a fan of the photo threads but really don't see the need for 6 or 7 pictures of each hole. Additionally they should be quality photos of interesting vantage points with superior lighting,framing and composition. Some guys realize this while others just snap pictures and post away.

Do you presume that we know what we are doing with our cameras? I'm little more than a drunken sailor with a canon.

[Thomas Dai]

I go along with what Bill said above about re-posting photos. It's not necessary.

The worldwide map within the Best of Golf area has been an excellent recent addition so thanks to all involved for providing it.

I would now like to suggest something that might be controversial - that the 'Quote' function be disabled. It's easier to click on 'Quote', or to be blunt, lazier, than to click on the 'Reply' button, but the amount of text that is repeated again and again and again seems to me, and I may be the odd-one-out here, way OTT (and yes, I do it sometimes, although not that often in total text, for which I apologise).

If folk are absolutely desperate to repeat what someone else has said then they can always copy-and-paste the appropriate text (hopefully limiting the number of words!) but when reading through a thread there is just so much text, and much of it is just repeat.

Posts in long sentences or long paragraphs are also a bugbear of mine. Too difficult to read. Short sentences and small, short paragraphs please.

GCA is a terrific website though, a source of information, advice, knowledge and friendship, and with immediate access to folk at the sharp end of the business, whose input I for one really appreciate.

Many thanks Ran for providing it.

Happy Christmas and New Year to all.

Atb

[Tommy Naccarato]

First, if some one is illustrating a point in regards to architecture, sometimes it takes multiple pictures from differing angles to show it. There is nothing wrong with this kind of study. Some of you need to try to learn to get creative in terms of how explaining what you've seen and what you think is cool in terms of what's in the ground; how a course is routed.

All of it betters the architectural discussions.

[Paul Gray]

Thomas,

I here you but the one real benefit of copying someone else's written word is that it capture their thinking as of then. Without it it becomes too easy for people to rewrite history.

[Tim_Weiman]

First, if some one is illustrating a point in regards to architecture, sometimes it takes multiple pictures from differing angles to show it. There is nothing wrong with this kind of study. Some of you need to try to learn to get creative in terms of how explaining what you've seen and what you think is cool in terms of what's in the ground; how a course is routed.

All of it betters the architectural discussions.

Tommy,

Sometimes a single picture is sufficient to make the point and sometimes not. If you stand about 185 yards out on the famous 8th hole at Pebble Beach, one picture should be plenty. By contrast, If I remember correctly, 150 yards out from the 1st at Pine Valley may not really illustrate the danger of missing the green wide and a second picture probably adds value.

The key is to think about the architectural feature one is trying to illustrate and to avoid just presenting a bunch of pretty pictures.

That specific issue aside, I like Ran's direction and clear statement of purpose for the site.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Tommy

Are you saying that instead of posting 50-75 pictures we should use photos to illustrate specific points, features, etc?

[Sven Nilsen]

Just wanted to get a comment in on this thread before it gets deleted.

Happy holidays everyone.

Sven

[Jon Byron]

How about my three minute youtube slideshow on Lahinch!   

http://youtu.be/wkR3YhzGlvs?list=UUBA_rmiUWMx09NY-1AjD2tQ

[Dave McCollum]

My favorite format for photo tours is tee shot, approach shot, and behind the green looking back at the line of play (& 2 views of green contours).  That’s +/- 50 photos. If there is a sign on the tee giving hole #, yardages from the tees, etc., that’s adds another 18.  Still, 68 pictures without a lot of comment is fast to shoot and quick to review when posted.  I’m not suggesting that any formula replace a detailed course photo tour.  I am saying (in the DG, not Courses by Country) that posting one hole, discussing it, posting another, and so on, is sometimes tedious and time consuming.  Why not post the pictures, take questions, and discuss?  Add some pictures if needed to aid the discussion.  Just my thoughts.  If the light is crappy, edit—let the “holes of note” or revealed in photos be your guide.  If you see something you want to discuss, take a few more shots and reveal the features. All I’m saying is when I see “XYZ course, 6th hole posted,” more days of discussion, next hole, etc., I’m not going there until it finishes and I can choose what to read/look at.  My apologies to those that enjoy the drag-it-out presentation.

Thanks Ran, I support your editorial enhancements.

[Jim Sherma]

No one has brought this up yet so I might as well. As an organizer of a past and future GCA gathering (Central PA, I will need a better name) as well as someone who has attended a few of them I am wondering if there will be a change in the practice of using GCA as a tool for organizing these? I feel that these gatherings (Dixie Cup, Saul Shootout, etc as well as one off's) are important to the dissemination of access and also the community spirit that GCA is capable of.

Guidance is appreciated.

[Sean_A]

Ran

I suggest you select photo tours to place into your Timeline and perhaps an additional page for others which aren't suitable for the Timeline.  I think once people see which tours you have selected to "save" that they will get the idea of what you are looking for.  I also think guys will go back and better edit the tours if they know it will be saved.  

Ciao

[RJ_Daley]

I would respectfully disagree on one point, Ran.  I for one very much enjoy an introduction posting from a new comer to the forum.  If it could be done by the new joiner being made aware of the "Who are you guys" long running thread, that would do fine.  But I suspect newbies don't know that thread exists to make there opening posts and introduce themselves.  I really never thought of the intro thread as a negative- just focused on the newcomer and solely about the person and distraction from the GCA topic.  I think the forum is as interesting as the people that form a perspective based on who tbey are, where they come from that has influenced their notions of GCA  based on their home areas and design types available to them.  It is just nice to have some background understanding of a newcomer's history to put their views in perspective.

I fully agree about over use of the quoting entire long threads, particularly reposting the previous threads bevy of pictures.  Just cut and paste the relavant bit to make yourpoint.

[Ronald Montesano]

The real problem with storage, I suspect, has been mentioned: guys who quote and needlessly include photos from the original. If you don't know by now that text weighs nothing while photos and video weigh a ton, you need to go back to 1992 AOL.

For example, here is me quoting me. I've removed the [ ] brackets to neuter the HTML. Unless I want to make a point by pointing to a specific photo, I should save Ran some space by eliminating the entire purple line from my quote:

quote author=Ronald Montesano link=topic=59335.msg1422633#msg1422633 date=1419192544
Visual learner that I am, I'll help y'all weigh in on these two fine courses. Draw your own conclusions.

I played and shot W in 2013, then played and shot D in 2014. Here goes.

size=16pt u b Overhead Looks /b /u /size
/quote