Higher standards for GolfClubAtlas.com

[Phil McDade]

Nice to see Kyle back. The standards around here just went up. Now if I could just have the dicipline to stop posting so much, they'd shoot through the roof.  

Of course, 'standards' are relative - the highest possible ones probably involving no one posting save for the architects, the supers, and MET teacher of the year Jeff Warne; and with the only photo threads like those that Joe, Jon, Mark, Sean and a few others consistently deliver.

For 2015: "Personalities are out, Perspicacity is in!"

Quite the odd definition of "highest possible....standards." Yes, let's make sure GCA circa 2015 doesn't allow any new posters with new or fresh ideas interrupt the glad-handing and usual suspecting that occurs all too frequently around here. It was a good thing, after all, that all those courses that Tom Doak wrote to years ago said no to him, don't you think?

[Don Mahaffey]

Quite the odd definition of "highest possible....standards." Yes, let's make sure GCA circa 2015 doesn't allow any new posters with new or fresh ideas interrupt the glad-handing and usual suspecting that occurs all too frequently around here. It was a good thing, after all, that all those courses that Tom Doak wrote to years ago said no to him, don't you think?

You mean the ones he wrote to after he had earned a degree in LA from Cornell and traveled overseas for further study?

Ran isn't cutting anyone off, he is just asking them to stay on point.

People can leave anytime they want.

Comments, yes. Opinions are a subset of comments. There are few people that simply offered their support.

But the tone of the first post implies finality. The tone of subsequent posts giving an unsolicited opinion imply a sense of entitlement. Ran wants things to change. They shall.

Nice post
I hope you are correct

[Dan Kelly]

I would respectfully disagree on one point, Ran.  I for one very much enjoy an introduction posting from a new comer to the forum.  If it could be done by the new joiner being made aware of the "Who are you guys" long running thread, that would do fine.  But I suspect newbies don't know that thread exists to make there opening posts and introduce themselves.

Suggestion: Make "Who are you guys?" a permanently sticky thread. Like Dick, I think it's interesting and germane to know a little something about a new member.

[Phil McDade]

Quite the odd definition of "highest possible....standards." Yes, let's make sure GCA circa 2015 doesn't allow any new posters with new or fresh ideas interrupt the glad-handing and usual suspecting that occurs all too frequently around here. It was a good thing, after all, that all those courses that Tom Doak wrote to years ago said no to him, don't you think?

You mean the ones he wrote to after he had earned a degree in LA from Cornell and traveled overseas for further study?

Ran isn't cutting anyone off, he is just asking them to stay on point.

People can leave anytime they want.

Don:

I'm pretty sure I understand what Ran said in his post; he's posted a version of this around this time of year for the past several years. I usually narrow its message down to: "think before you post," and it's always a helpful reminder, and one reason I've been posting a lot less in the past several months.

But I am continually amazed at those here who think golf architecture is best, or perhaps most thoughtfully discussed, by those intimately involved in it, so much so that they have found a way to make a living at it. Doak was hardly close to making a career of it when his trip to the U.K. opened his eyes to ways of thinking about golf design and architecture that challenged the conventional wisdom of the time. From such nobodies and people outside the conventional norms do the best ideas often come.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

As one who enjoys the occasoinal off topic thread, this dissapoints a little but I will cetianly follow the guidelines.
I feel I have made some very good freindships via off topic threads, Brian S comes to mind for our sharing of a passion for a certain football team,  that certainly would not have become evident but for off topic discussions.
That been said I am all for whatever the moderators consider to be the best for gca.
It is a valued and enjoyable part of my life and one that I take seriously, so march on.

[Ronald Montesano]

Nice to see Kyle back. The standards around here just went up. Now if I could just have the dicipline to stop posting so much, they'd shoot through the roof.  

Of course, 'standards' are relative - the highest possible ones probably involving no one posting save for the architects, the supers, and MET teacher of the year Jeff Warne;

I hope you find zero dicipline in the coming year.

And I disagree 100% with the need to make the second statement.

[Terry Lavin]

Nice to see Kyle back. The standards around here just went up. Now if I could just have the dicipline to stop posting so much, they'd shoot through the roof.  

Of course, 'standards' are relative - the highest possible ones probably involving no one posting save for the architects, the supers, and MET teacher of the year Jeff Warne; and with the only photo threads like those that Joe, Jon, Mark, Sean and a few others consistently deliver.

For 2015: "Personalities are out, Perspicacity is in!"

Very perspicacious of you to come up with that nearly alliterative sesquipedalian saying!

[Ronald Montesano]

Having dusted off the thesaurus, perspicacity can't be in, as it is not something we are all blessed with. It takes time to develop, and most would rather dedicate time to other tasks and responsibilities.

As far as sesquipedalian goes, Mary Poppins said it pretty well~

[Sven Nilsen]

I'm always bored by the airing of the grievances.  Wake me up for the feats of strength.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the post, Ran.  

I'm sure you have more enjoyable things to do with your time than prune the discussion board threads, but it's great that you're doing it.  You've made clear how we should be using this resource, and I'll do my best to follow this.

Good luck, and thanks.

[Gary Sato]

If more people spent 10 seconds to use the search function you'll find 60% of what you are looking for especially regarding travel.

I also applaud Ran for weeding out the crap.  I'm sure his bill for the web hosting service runs into the thousands of dollars (a good reason to donate) so why not take out some of the unrelated dribble.

[Brent Hutto]

I hate to harp on the same thing but Ran's announcement did not indicate the new initiative had anything to do with bandwidth, costs, storage or other hosting concerns.

It seemed clear to me he does not want what he views as the valuable content on the site to be surrounded by off-topic crap. I believe he is concerned entirely by how the non-architecture nonsense reflects poorly on the site, thereby obscuring or devaluing the content he wishes to showcase.

[Ronald Montesano]

One thing I will say, though: "What courses should I play in Scotland?" - those threads really do need to die a death. 

It is simple to eliminate that step, as Brian suggests. Do a bit of due diligence, then ask "I'm considering playing A, B, C and D. PM or email me with your drive time thoughts, your favorite courses, and I'll kick back my decision when I'm done."

Since no one is posting pics on PMs, no bandwidth issue there. Plus, you can say whatever you like, as it is "P"!

[Richard Choi]

All I’m saying is when I see “XYZ course, 6th hole posted,” more days of discussion, next hole, etc., I’m not going there until it finishes and I can choose what to read/look at.  My apologies to those that enjoy the drag-it-out

You are going to hate my next thread...

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'm always bored by the airing of the grievances. 

Wake me up for the feats of strength.

Sven,

Just for you, I will start another thread addressed to you and your experiences at Bandon

[Patrick_Mucci]

Shivas,

Ed Oden's "A compilation...." thread should be memorialized by having it's own section.

That thread is invalueable and should be preserved.

P.S.  Send me the unending "ass" pics that go on forever.  I never get tired of them.

[Paul Gray]

Ran

It is understood that periodically you need to do a bit of judicious pruning to reduce the clutter and irrelevant stuff that people post, me included. I do however think it a backword step to delete course photo tours, whether under the "Courses by Country" banner or by way of those posted by the likes of Sean, Mark Rowlinson, Paul Turner or whoever. While I appreciate they use up a hell of a lot of space they are IMO some of the most interesting threads. For instance Paul just bumped a 2004 photo tour he did of Windermere and that has to be one of the best photo tours I've seen on here.

+1
As a frequent contributor to "Golf and College Football"
I volunteer to sacrifice that monster thread to preserve Paul's 2004 thread
Love those old photo tours that are updated over the years

Whilst perfectly good OT chatter whilst it's all going on, the biannual (more frequent of late) Aussie vs England Ashes threads have no historic relevance to this site. I doubt Wisden were looking to Ran for the views of a few amateur cricket fans.

[Mark Steffey]

Do you presume that we know what we are doing with our cameras? I'm little more than a drunken sailor with a canon.

guilty!!

i took a bunch of pictures this summer/fall at Brookline, Long Cove, Ford Plantation and a couple others but when i look at them i go 'eh'.  so no tour.

[Rick Shefchik]

Shivas,

Ed Oden's "A compilation...." thread should be memorialized by having it's own section.

That thread is invalueable and should be preserved.

P.S.  Send me the unending "ass" pics that go on forever.  I never get tired of them.

Patrick, once you've re-studied the ass pics, try Tony Muldoon's "Found, the missing golfers" thread. Then click on the link to the picture of Mike Young's friend. Then keep clicking. And keep clicking. We may get nothing but ass pics from golfers, but for some reason, cyclists pics favor the other side.

[Niall C]

Mark B also suggested County Sligo might be one to lose from the Courses by Country list. Well, of all the courses I've played once but want to play again, County Sligo is top of the list ahead of more highly rated courses.

Niall

Niall...marks quest is to show which ones are gone, not which ones HE wants to depart.

Ron m.

Ronald

That was understood, and I wasn't criticising Mark, I was basically pleading for photo threads to be kept.

Niall

[Niall C]

Niall,

I think Ran is referring to tours where the pictures no longer appear.  There was a change in the way pics could be posted several years ago, and some older tours just show "image not available."  These could be removed (or photo links updated).

As for the general content of the photo tours, I'm surprised we're using this call by Ran to have a debate as to the "proper" number of pictures in a tour. Some people want a general sense of a course, while others like a more detailed tour.  Neither is "correct."  I don't think the site's in danger if running out of storage space.  My reading of Ran's statement is that he wants less clutter in the topics, but not trying to dictate general vs detailed photo tours.

Kevin

He was referring to those tours where the photos no longer appear, and I have no quibble with that, however if I read his piece correctly he was also looking at deleting others that hadn't been visited for a while and including some of his own "Courses by Country" tours which I think would be a great shame.

As for the format of the photo tour, I like the idea of tours that try to give the flavour of the course rather than a shot of every hole from every angle. However each to their own and I wouldn't want to be prescriptive about it.

Niall

[Niall C]

One thing I will say, though: "What courses should I play in Scotland?" - those threads really do need to die a death. Especially when half of those posting such threads haven't even taken a cursory look at Google Maps to estimate driving times / establish that their first draft is totally unfeasible logistically.

Thank you Brian, that made me laugh. Sure as fate you get one or two a year and I keep promising that I'll not bother responding but like a sucker I nearly always do. With very rare exceptions the person starting the thread has already made up his mind to play the usual suspects ie. Dornoch, Cruden Bay, TOC etc. and just really wants everyone else to know it. Suggesting more realistic itineraries or trying to suggest little known (on GCA at any rate) courses is usually just a futile exercise.

However, having said that, should we do away with them or just encourage the poster to use the search button ?

Niall

[Neil Davis]

Having read Ran's comments in the initial post, not once did I come across the phrase:

"What do you think?"

Or similar phrasing requesting an opinion.

Amazing.

Four pages of responses to the moderator's post about, among other things, keeping this site tight and succinct.  I think we know the problem (didn't stop me from posting, I guess).

[jeffwarne]

One thing I will say, though: "What courses should I play in Scotland?" - those threads really do need to die a death. Especially when half of those posting such threads haven't even taken a cursory look at Google Maps to estimate driving times / establish that their first draft is totally unfeasible logistically.

Thank you Brian, that made me laugh. Sure as fate you get one or two a year and I keep promising that I'll not bother responding but like a sucker I nearly always do. With very rare exceptions the person starting the thread has already made up his mind to play the usual suspects ie. Dornoch, Cruden Bay, TOC etc. and just really wants everyone else to know it. Suggesting more realistic itineraries or trying to suggest little known (on GCA at any rate) courses is usually just a futile exercise.

However, having said that, should we do away with them or just encourage the poster to use the search button ?

Niall

I must say I've picked up a lot over the years from such a thread, but search is useful as well.
But to find it on search, it had to be discussed at some point
Keep replying Niall-I've built my most recent trip around your recs
The futile part is trying to get me to play a usual suspect!

[Mark Pearce]

One thing I will say, though: "What courses should I play in Scotland?" - those threads really do need to die a death. Especially when half of those posting such threads haven't even taken a cursory look at Google Maps to estimate driving times / establish that their first draft is totally unfeasible logistically.

Indeed.  Though "unfeasible logistically" is relative.  I wouldn't dream of undertaking some of the trips in Scotland (in particular) that get proposed but did once play Cypress Point and Lawsonia on succesive days.  I'm even less enthusiatic about those threads which are "These are the courses I'm going to play in Scotland", where there isn't a genuine desire for suggestions, more an intention to share a holiday itinerary.