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BCowan

Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« on: November 13, 2014, 07:14:31 PM »
Mine would have to be Willie Park Jr, what is yours?  
« Last Edit: November 13, 2014, 07:21:56 PM by BCowan »

Jason Thurman

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2014, 07:56:01 PM »
Archie Simpson
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Ian Andrew

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2014, 08:02:39 PM »
Herbert Leeds

Not a lot is known about Herbert Leeds other than he came from wealth and was a lifelong sportsman excelling in sailing and golf. He was even a member of the USGA executive committee in 1905. He does not have a large body of work so we are left to judge him mainly on Myopia Hunt - the focus of his life’s work.

Leeds was not happy with the state of American course architecture - particularly the original course at Myopia - and persuaded his club to build a new and much improved 18 holes. He began by visiting Shinnecock Hills - then the standard of excellence - to learn about the architecture. He paid close attention to the greens set in the natural hollows and on top of plateaus and employed the same techniques. Where he excelled was how he also incorporated the undulations of the land to challenge the tee shots. He reinforced the strategies with numerous bunkers to penalize a misplayed shot. While he did design a couple of other courses he focus was making refinements and improvements to Myopia Hunt right up until his death.

Whether the strategies came from evolution and observance - or right from the initial design - the results speak for themselves. He was known to carry white chips with him and if a good player got away with a seeming miss, he would drop a few chips in the area and a bunker would shortly appear thereafter. Because of this approach to bunkering the course has often been called penal, but that would be underestimating the superior strategies created by the cants of the fairways and the severe contours he created aton the green that create strategy. The bunkers simply supported or emphasized what he had already laid out.

I think he's the unappreciated pioneer.
"Appreciate the constructive; ignore the destructive." -- John Douglas

Greg Gilson

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2014, 08:03:02 PM »
Tom Simpson.

I know he is "appreciated"  - especially here - but not as much as I believe his designs deserve.

HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2014, 08:09:13 PM »
Fred Hood - Kittansett is amazing!

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2014, 08:57:25 PM »
Perry Maxwell is definitely under appreciated.

Tim Martin

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2014, 08:59:53 PM »
Fred Hood - Kittansett is amazing!

I think he had an assist from a guy named Flynn. ;)

jeffwarne

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2014, 09:06:40 PM »
James Braid
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

BHoover

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2014, 09:10:30 PM »
Tom Bendelow

HarryBrinkerhoffDoyleIV_aka_Barry

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie New
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2014, 09:13:24 PM »
[REMOVED]
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 06:11:48 PM by HarryBrinkerhofDoyleIVakaBarry »

BCowan

Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2014, 09:35:51 PM »
Fred Hood - Kittansett is amazing!

I think he had an assist from a guy named Flynn. ;)

My understanding is Hood received a very limited assist from Flynn, in that Flynn provided a partial routing.  In addition, my understanding is Fred Hood completed the routing and oversaw every last detail @ Kittansett, and it is essentially Fred Hood's baby.  Perhaps I'm wrong......

 I hear Kittansett is amazing.  How many courses did Fred do?  Any other Gems?

Peter Pallotta

Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2014, 09:37:50 PM »
I used to agree with Jason, and then I decided to side with Ian instead, but then I realized that they were both wrong and it was Greg who was right, but now I know that Jeff is correct and that James Braid is the answer.

Right then, enough of this thread....

Peter

Thomas Dai

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 02:53:37 AM »
Herbert Fowler
atb

Sean_A

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 03:08:51 AM »
My gut tells me James Braid is the most under-appreciated ODG, but that is based on my preferences...but he did create a lot of unmemorable architecture.  It seems he needed the right land to sparkle.  Mind you, when he had a decent budget and more than merely a bunker job on hand, Braid's work was good.     

I also have an inclining to lean toward Fowler, but he is usually mentioned with his peers as a pioneer even if he is the guy relatively little is known about.  Still, none of the big archies I know of have come close to creating such individual courses...no two are alike...who else can we truly say that about?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

David_Elvins

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 06:29:42 AM »

In America and on this website, I would say Mackenzie.  He is without peer (or was until Doak and Coore came a long), but I always read him mentioned in the same sentence as Ross, Tillinghast, and MacDonald.
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Rich Goodale

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2014, 06:40:33 AM »
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Jon Wiggett

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2014, 09:50:14 AM »
James Braid for me. Lots of very good second tier clubs about from him.

Ryan Coles

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2014, 10:03:51 AM »
None of them.

Hence the description.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2014, 10:10:48 AM »
Donald Ross
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

BCowan

Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2014, 10:14:48 AM »
James Braid for me. Lots of very good second tier clubs about from him.

Jon,

  Is Park Jr more well know by average club member in the UK?  Ross is a household name in the US. 

Ian Mackenzie

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2014, 11:16:59 AM »
(Is "Golden Era" post WWI?)

Definitely a Chicago-centric answer, but I would say Herbert J. Tweedie.
Tweedie laid out some incredible courses that were subsequently "redone" by Flynn, Ross, Langford, CBM, etc.

Thanks, Dan Moore, for the following:

"In Cornish and Whitten’s “The Golf Course”, Tweedie was credited with laying out the following courses: Belmont, Bryn Mawr, Exmoor, Homewood (now Flossmoor), Glen View, LaGrange, Midlothian, Park Ridge, Hinsdale, Rockford, Washington Park, Westward Ho, Maple Bluff, and a remodel with James and Robert Foulis at Onwentsia.

The work on the nine hole Belmont Course in 1892 became the original location of Chicago Golf Club, of which Herbert was a founding member. When the Chicago club moved to Wheaton in 1894, he built a new course at the Belmont links and became the club’s president for three years."

Mark McKeever

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2014, 02:44:52 PM »
Definitely Leeds.  Seeing what he did at Myopia was nothing short of incredible.

Makr
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Joe Bausch

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2014, 03:03:26 PM »
Many good nominations thus far.  And I really think a good case can be made for Willie Park, Jr.

I also feel Alex Findlay gets ignored.  He did some pretty good stuff.  Including in my neck of the woods:

Llanerch:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/LlanerchCC/

Tavistock:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/Tavistock2/
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Jimmy Muratt

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2014, 03:08:06 PM »
George Thomas
Perry Maxwell

Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

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Re: Most under appreciated Golden Age Archie
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2014, 04:23:01 PM »
Coming at this with an East Coast bias, I'd have to say Macan would be much better known had his work been based in the Northeast or Chicagoland.