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Sam Krume

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unheralded english golf courses
« on: October 28, 2014, 08:28:13 AM »
Just returned from my golfing stag weekend. Played Stoneham (which we loved and reminded us of West Hill) but the standout for us was Isle of Purbeck. A bit rough and ready but great greens and the best views in English Golf. Any thoughts on IOP
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 08:31:30 AM by Sam Krume »
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Steve Wilson

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2014, 11:30:23 AM »
I was on the Isle of Purbeck in 1997 but not to play golf.  Afterwards I discovered there was a course on the "Isle" and it was, I believe, attributed to Colt.  That it's in rough shape might indicate it hasn't been tampered with through the years. 

I had considered doing another side trip on the way to BUDA this year to see this course but I ran out of time.

I'm sure there are some locals in the tree house who know more about it.
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Ed Tilley

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2014, 12:51:27 PM »
Played once - took 6 hours to get round >:( 6 of us - started playing two 3 balls. Ended up playing as a 6 ball and still getting held up on every shot. Couldn't get out of the place fast enough and have absolutely no desire to ever go back. I'm sure if I played it on a better day I'd appreciate it but there are too many courses to play to ever give that course / club any of my money again. We played IOP, Broadstone, Parkstone and Ferndown on our trip and everyone had it bottom of the 4.

From what I remember the course was alright and there were some excellent views although from memory these were only from a couple of holes - I could certainly name courses well known on this site (St. Enodoc, Perranporth) and less well known (Mullion, Bigbury) which had better views than IOP.

Perhaps I just got it on a bad day?
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2014, 01:19:32 PM »
     Played in 1997. Hillside downs course beneath Corfe Castle. Long views of Bournemouth and Portsmouth are nice, but distant. I would have to agree that it is a was a bit rough, but it is a country course. Lots of heather and wind. I had a pleasant round with members, took time to marvel at the fossils in the clubhouse (Bill, I'm talking about rocks, nor ancient members). Scratchy round but I remember a hole where I was advised not to hit driver because of a creek, said I didn't travel 5000 miles to lay up and promptly bounced the tee shot across the lone  bridge . That was the only time that the trite line actually worked. Definitely not a 6 hour round.
      It was on the itinerary because of the CG and I was travelling from one golf pod near Deal to the next pod in Cornwall. Overnighted in Portsmouth, toured HMS Victory in the morning, noon golf at IoP, then drove to the next destination. Pretty much out of the way so visitors don't stumble across the course.
      Unlike any other course I played during the month, conditioning was on par with Littlestone.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 01:31:06 PM by Pete_Pittock »
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Paul Dolton

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2014, 01:35:48 PM »
I try to play Isle of Purbeck once a year. It has suffered with thatchy greens for a while but they seem to be improving.
Its a great location and a very good course. A bit of  an adventure.
I believe they have some new investers which will help. The fifth tee on a clear day is not to be missed. Stunning view.
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Paul Gray

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2014, 01:38:56 PM »
Sam,

Recent reports have suggested poor management down at IOP but I haven't been down that way for years (it's a very long way from Hayling Island!  ;D) so I can't speak first hand. Very pleased to here it was to your liking. At its best it should have a character all of its own.

Very surprised that you preferred it to Stoneham though but each to his or her own. I played Stoneham this year for the first time in maybe 20 years and was hugely impressed with the tree removal program. Last time I was there it had become a 'dodge the branches' affair so it was great to see it getting back to somewhere close to where it should be. I know from the Pro that there are a few specimens which certain members are clinging to (hopefully not literally but I think it might end up that way!) but generally the work has proceeded very well.  
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 06:06:54 PM by Paul Gray »
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In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul Gray

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2014, 01:40:16 PM »
Quote from: Paul Dolton on October 28, 2014, 01:35:48 PM

.........I believe they have some new investers which will help.

Fingers crossed but don't count your chickens just yet. Money and little knowledge generally equals damage.  ;)
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In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Sam Krume

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2014, 01:53:20 PM »
Paul,
We enjoyed Stoneham, but playing off the daily tees I felt it did not offer too stern a test (4 over, playing off 7) where as IOP offered up a lot more. I feel with some tlc (which I really hope is coming there way-greens were great though) IOP would certainly rise in the rankings. 10 of us played and got round in just under 4 hours and this was a Saturday 11am tee off!!
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Pete Lavallee

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2014, 01:56:18 PM »
Played there in a 2006 trip and had a good time. There are some excellent holes like 5 and 6 on the front and long par 3 and following par 4 through the ancient burial mounds on the back. The wife and I played through a group from Rugby and as piped she her drive and it whisteled over one golfers head he exclaimed: Inspirational!

The fossils imbedded in the stones of the Clubhouse were pretty cool. We were given a free Centenial Book as well. All in all, a pleasant place for a round of golf with impressive views and a welcoming Clubhouse.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 01:57:54 PM by Pete Lavallee »
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Paul Dolton

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2014, 02:01:43 PM »
In the area you have Broadstone , Parkstone and Ferndown as well. All courses you would probably prefer to be a member at but I of P has that wild look and you know you will have some fun out there.
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Sam Krume

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2014, 02:03:59 PM »
Pete,
Standout hole is No. 5 without a doubt, as when on the tee you really don't realise how much room you have. Really like 8 also, sweeping dog leg par 5. 13 & 14 could do with a bit of work but did love the green site on 13, what with being benched in to hill side. I guess my skulled wedge to the back and watching it roll down the bank to 2 foot may have influenced my liking for this green site in particular!!
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Sam Krume

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2014, 02:05:43 PM »
Paul,
Broadstone is defo my favourite down that way but as I mentioned with a bit of loving IoP could be very good.
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Ed Tilley

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2014, 02:24:20 PM »
Quote from: Sam Krume on October 28, 2014, 01:53:20 PM
Paul,
We enjoyed Stoneham, but playing off the daily tees I felt it did not offer too stern a test (4 over, playing off 7) where as IOP offered up a lot more. I feel with some tlc (which I really hope is coming there way-greens were great though) IOP would certainly rise in the rankings. 10 of us played and got round in just under 4 hours and this was a Saturday 11am tee off!!

I'm sure mine was an isolated experience. However, it was so bad - and it wasn't just the time for the round as they were bloody rude to us - that I will never be back. I thought it was a decent course, but certainly not as good as the other 3 in the usual Bournemouth swing. If you're down there give it a go though and make up your own mind.
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Paul Gray

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2014, 02:56:34 PM »
Sam,

I don't think I've ever actually played Stoneham from the yellow tees as I've always either been in some sort of club match or accompanied by other low cappers and allowed to play from our choice of tees, hence we've always played the back markers. I will say that there are a few holes there, particularly the par 5's which I'd suggest are just too short for the modern better player. And it's rare that I ever comment on a lack of length as I'm just not that type of ape.

PS: Last time I was down there I played to your handicap so you win! It's VERY rare that I mark a card in a casual round but I just so happened to that day and, purely by chance, stumbled across the offending 79 just yesterday. ;D
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In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2014, 04:09:17 PM »
You are all right. There are so many 'unheralded' courses, not only in England but also throughout Britain. For years I have felt that I want to share these with others - and we'll argue, disagree, or even agree - but there are so many good to fascinating courses that one person will love, another hate, and yet another appreciate. I don't expect people to agree with me, but I am grateful when they have given the course a chance.

All these southern English courses in the sweep between the Sandwiches and Deals and the St Enedocs and Burnham and Berrows are worthy of a visit if you are in the area. If you are driving along the southern English coast it's not that far inland also to detour to West Sussex, Blackmoor or Liphook. And shouldn't we consider also the downland courses such as Worthing or High Post......?
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jeffwarne

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2014, 04:19:53 PM »
Quote from: Mark_Rowlinson on October 28, 2014, 04:09:17 PM
You are all right. There are so many 'unheralded' courses, not only in England but also throughout Britain. For years I have felt that I want to share these with others - and we'll argue, disagree, or even agree - but there are so many good to fascinating courses that one person will love, another hate, and yet another appreciate. I don't expect people to agree with me, but I am grateful when they have given the course a chance.

All these southern English courses in the sweep between the Sandwiches and Deals and the St Enedocs and Burnham and Berrows are worthy of a visit if you are in the area. If you are driving along the southern English coast it's not that far inland also to detour to West Sussex, Blackmoor or Liphook. And shouldn't we consider also the downland courses such as Worthing or High Post......?

Was hoping we'd get a chime in from perhaps the formost expert on "unheralded" English courses, or which there are SO many.
Kudos to Mark for exposing to me the likes of West Cornwall, Bude, and Perranporth along with the other GCA faves in that area.

Even the heralded ones here on GCA are completely unheralded, unheard of , and unvisited by the visiting masses who "do" Scotland (not England) on their one UK trip and play 3-4 Open courses and maybe a Kingsbarns, Castle Stuart, or a Trump.

That's good news for us consumers though ;) ;D
I feel like I've only scratched the surface in England reading the reviews from Mark or seeing the winter tours of Sean Arble.
So many courses, so little time....
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Sam Krume

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2014, 04:46:43 PM »
Paul,
As it was a stag do and there were varying handicaps we were told that we would have to play off the daily tee's. Would like to give it another go off the backs as the routing was good. I am not an ape you subtly suggest,I just felt of the yellows that there were too many shots in with the short clubs, that's all.....
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Paul Gray

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2014, 06:10:40 PM »
Sam,

I promise the ape comment was not intended as any sort of slight against you. It popped into my head, why I don't know, and I have a very limited ability to control myself generally.  ;D
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In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul Gray

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2014, 06:20:09 PM »
Mark,

You can't have West Sussex or Liphook as unheralded. Everyone raves about them. I'm not sure that it's even possible to pick up any literature written by anyone that knows the game without stumbling across something about Liphook.

Blackmoor rarely gets a mention. You certainly have a fair point there. I actually think it's an excellent example of what Colt could do with less than exceptional topography. And of course, just to keep up the usually home bias, I often receive a blank expression when telling people I'm from Hayling, although I'll concede that as a club we have a few little issues at present that prevent us from receiving greater recognition.

Shamefully, I've never played Worthing. It's been on the list for a few years now but I keep letting myself down. Next year, next year.
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In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul Gray

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2014, 07:14:32 PM »
I give you a couple of James Braid heathland layouts which you never hear much about, tucked away as they are in Suffolk:

1) Purdis Heath (Ipswich Golf Club)
2) Woodbridge

Purdis Heath have been removing trees this year and the place is all the better for it. I was last there in April and things seemed to be moving along nicely. I felt it was a big over bunkered in pace but nonetheless, it's very worth a little detour if you find yourself in that general area. The new secretary and a collection of very friendly members can usually be found supporting the bar of an evening.

Purdis always seems to be more highly rated but, for my money at least, Woodbridge is just more fun. I really enjoyed the flow of the course as it begins with a classic gentle handshake and builds more and more as the front nine continues. The back nine is where it really gets going and it came as a very pleasant surprise one evening whilst working away from home. 
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In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Thomas Dai

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2014, 04:12:07 AM »
Pretty difficult to drive for 30 mins or so in most parts of the country without going somewhere near some unheralded course of decent quality, even if the focus is only on 'classic period' and earlier courses.

It would be an interesting exercise, time consuming maybe, to take a list of all the courses in the country, remove the 'top rated' say 200 (to leave out the usual 'heralded' suspects) plus any that no ones has much time for. The remaining list would probably be pretty long. You could do the same exercise but also remove any built after the 'classic period' if you so wished.

atb
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Mark Chaplin

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2014, 05:40:49 AM »
Knole Park in Sevenoaks and Crowborough Beacon are under the radar and very good.

For a little rough and ready Thorpeness near Aldeburgh is very pleasant and I'm told Felixstowe Ferry is a decent links course.
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Sean_A

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2014, 05:46:56 AM »
atb

I am not sure how many crackers there are in England once we get past 200 (~10% of courses in England); my guess is not all that many, but enough to keep me busy for a spell.  Much of the problem is that a huge percentage of newer courses are of little interest an that a huge percentage of older courses will likely have one or two high spots mixed in with a lot of low spots.  I am happy to travel for the gems, but I don't think I am quite as open to what a cracker is compared to you.  In other words, I sense you are easily pleased  :D  

My difficulty is finding people I can trust who have played these out of the way courses in recent years.  There isn't a site, magazine or book on the planet I trust to nudge me toward a 3-4 car ride to a course I know (or anybody else I know) little about.  Thats why I love photo tours.  Consequently, areas like Suffolk are neglected by myself...and when I do go it will be for heralded courses.  The good GCA folks up north have pointed out a few gems like Crosland Heath which I must get to some day...now its time for them to move en mass to Suffolk.  I guess my point is, I don't see many unheralded courses in England which attract me.  

Chappers

I wouldn't consider Knole Park or Crowborough Beacon as unheralded...which is another part of the problem.  Guys like who who are used to slummin' around top 25 world courses have a skewed PoV  ;)

Ciao
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Thomas Dai

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2014, 06:18:44 AM »
Ouch! :)

I suggest care is needed here to avoid semantics - for example, 'unheralded' as per the thread title vrs 'cracker' vrs 'gem' - don't necessarily mean the same thing to all. There's a lot of thoroughly decent golf out there, plus some not so decent. For example, I know folk who absolutely detest and openly laugh when they hear the much GCA heralded word..."Painswick".

Pick a journey across England, say Kent across to Bristol or from say east Yorkshire across to Liverpool or Lowestoft to Chester and I'm sure you'll find many an unheralded' course not far off your journey providing thoroughly decent golf and probably never photo-toured herein and not mentioned very often either.

Easily pleased? One man's food vrs another man's poison I guess.

atb
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Sean_A

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Re: unheralded english golf courses
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2014, 06:43:30 AM »
atb

Yes, Painswick is a prime example of unheralded...this board excepted. 

Yes, I can buy there are a load of unheralded courses which provide "thoroughly decent golf", but when I travel I want something more...that may be the difference between us.  Using Painswick for instance; I couldn't say it is a very good course (good enough though).  There is likely more bad architecture on that course than I will see in 25 other courses combined, however, there is likely more interesting and unusual architecture than I will see in 50 other courses combined.  That combo will attract me all day long. 

I also think a lot of would be fine unheralded courses suffer greatly for their turf and maintenance.  I am becoming less and less tolerant of this whereas you may be willing to overlook the issues because the architecture interests you.  Jeepers, I am this close (imagine my thumb and forefinger nearly touching  :D) to writing off Cavendish and I adore that design.  Thankfully, this year the club seems to be making some inroads into improving the condition. 

Ciao
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New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell
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