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David Whitmer

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Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2014, 08:45:22 PM »
David,

This is a 'new' approach; the cape hole which forgets to include a fairway.
 
Nice.

I don't see it catching on, Paul. This hole is stupid on so many levels. It's the " Plan 9 From Outer Space" of golf holes. So dumb it's funny.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2014, 09:08:05 PM »
Any 90 degree dogleg where you have to hit the ball a certain distance just to get to the corner for a shot at the pin.  Too short or too long and you're essentially pitching out to the spot where you can then hit your approach.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2014, 06:01:39 AM »
Paul/David it was always a slightly surreal experience driving through a golf course in a heavily armed convoy.
Cave Nil Vino

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2014, 02:22:01 PM »
David,

This is a 'new' approach; the cape hole which forgets to include a fairway.
 
Nice.

I don't see it catching on, Paul. This hole is stupid on so many levels. It's the " Plan 9 From Outer Space" of golf holes. So dumb it's funny.

I'm sure you realised but, just for the avoidance of any point, I was being utterly British in my sarcasm.

I wouldn't want to assume the role of arbiter (that's a lie) but, as far as I'm concern, your hole is most definitely in. We do, after all, need a good mix of stupid in order for the course to not flow properly.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2014, 02:24:32 PM »
I still think the Atherstone hole is top dog, not least because once you reach the corner of the dog leg the hole appears to be absurdly narrow.

We need a few more nominations to get to 18, though!
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #30 on: October 29, 2014, 02:35:53 PM »
I still think the Atherstone hole is top dog, not least because once you reach the corner of the dog leg the hole appears to be absurdly narrow.

We need a few more nominations to get to 18, though!

Yep, it's that narrowness which, after all the stupidity that's gone into the design in the first place, just gets me laughing every time! I'm thinking it's a strong candidate for the 1st hole. It would be exceptionally bad to start a round on that little belter.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 07:09:38 PM by Paul Gray »
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #31 on: October 29, 2014, 02:44:09 PM »
Bill,

Any painfully shocking malpractice or just a bad course all round?

An unsuitable site on very steep side hills where the fairways are on narrow parallel terraces stair stepped up the hills.  Hook a ball and you might go two terraces down.  Malpractice is too strong a word but it should never have been built.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2014, 05:09:19 PM by Bill_McBride »

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2014, 03:01:04 PM »
Golf Club of Georgia Creekside!!!

I nominate two holes.  The 2nd hole and the 4th hole.  You just gotta play them.   ;D
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Kevin Stark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2014, 10:15:35 PM »
I nominate this beauty at Bellevue Golf Course in Bellevue, Washington. It has not one but two 90 degree doglegs. I played it 15+ years ago and I recall it being roughly a 3-iron, 6-iron, 8-iron.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.659629,-122.1480623,483m/data=!3m1!1e3

Let's also include #17 at Crab Orchard Golf Club in Carterville, Illinois. A 1-iron, sand wedge, 90-degree dogleg when I was in college, with a huge left to right slope for the second shot. The green now appears to be neatly surrounded by newly planted trees too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7539566,-89.0911155,288m/data=!3m1!1e3


Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2014, 03:48:41 AM »
Kevin,

I see something in your first link which seems to turn 180 degrees. Is this right? I mean, obviously it isn't 'right' but is this right?  ;D
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2014, 05:26:42 AM »
I nominate this beauty at Bellevue Golf Course in Bellevue, Washington. It has not one but two 90 degree doglegs. I played it 15+ years ago and I recall it being roughly a 3-iron, 6-iron, 8-iron.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.659629,-122.1480623,483m/data=!3m1!1e3

Let's also include #17 at Crab Orchard Golf Club in Carterville, Illinois. A 1-iron, sand wedge, 90-degree dogleg when I was in college, with a huge left to right slope for the second shot. The green now appears to be neatly surrounded by newly planted trees too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7539566,-89.0911155,288m/data=!3m1!1e3

I figured out the hole on the first link, but not the second. Is it possible to take a screen shot, then use an arrow or circle tool to help us out?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

David Whitmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2014, 09:04:42 AM »

I'm sure you realised but, just for the avoidance of any point, I was being utterly British in my sarcasm.

I wouldn't want to assume the role of arbiter (that's a lie) but, as far as I'm concern, your hole is most definitely in. We do, after all, need a good mix of stupid in order for the course to not flow properly.

Oh yes, Paul, I understood your sarcasm. I tried to shoot it right back to you by saying "I don't think it will catch on."

That course's par fives may very well be the worst collection of par fives anywhere. I already mentioned one of them, the ninth hole where you can't hit it more than 220 yards off the tee unless you want to drown your golf ball. The card says it's 544 yards, but that's ridiculous. I can hit 4 iron-4 iron on the green (it can't be more than 440 yards therefore).


Not to be overlooked is the 15th hole, with a hill to the right of the fairway, a drop-off left, the fairway runs out after about 240 yards, and the green is approximately 30 yards wide and 20 feet deep. Truly horrific.


Finally, the 18th hole. The fairway runs out after 250 yards. You then hit over a pond (the level of the water is above the fairway), going straight uphill to a terrible green.


These three collectively are industrial-strength bad. But the course is what it is...it doesn't pretend to be any kind of championship course or anything like that. I think $30 gets you a round. And the owner is a very sweet guy. I think Cincinnati golf needs a few courses like this; I just hope I don't have to play them very often.

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2014, 09:11:08 AM »
I nominate this beauty at Bellevue Golf Course in Bellevue, Washington. It has not one but two 90 degree doglegs. I played it 15+ years ago and I recall it being roughly a 3-iron, 6-iron, 8-iron.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.659629,-122.1480623,483m/data=!3m1!1e3

Let's also include #17 at Crab Orchard Golf Club in Carterville, Illinois. A 1-iron, sand wedge, 90-degree dogleg when I was in college, with a huge left to right slope for the second shot. The green now appears to be neatly surrounded by newly planted trees too.

https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7539566,-89.0911155,288m/data=!3m1!1e3

I figured out the hole on the first link, but not the second. Is it possible to take a screen shot, then use an arrow or circle tool to help us out?
I think the tee is by the par three over the lake on the right. Not sure what the first part of fairway is doing however.

Kevin Stark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2014, 09:18:39 AM »
Sorry, I was Photobucket-challenged. Here they are in all their glory:





There was a creek that appears to have now been piped under the fairway in the second photo. The land sloped severely to the creek on both sides, so I'm sure the fairway short is still sloped severely. The trees between the tee and the green block out any reward for trying to drive the green. Better still, there is in-course out of bounds around the dogleg.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 09:21:47 AM by Kevin Stark »

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2014, 09:59:34 AM »
Well this threat just keeps on giving.

The number of par 5's appears to support the old adage that if you give an idiot enough length he's likely to hang himself. A few of these look like absolute beauties for the short hitting high handicapper. I actually rather like the odd sharp dogleg which gives a cape effect to the second shot. I often think it's a lot more interesting than simply trying to blast away from the tee over some large expanse of water. Rather oddly however, these entries, complete with trees on doglegs and the wonderful little architectural manoeuvre that is internal OOB, do not appear to be inspiring me to drop everything and throw the clubs in the car.  ;D

In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2014, 11:56:25 AM »
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks little of the acute double-dogleg par 5. Here's one that's practically "U-shaped."  Look familiar?




"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2014, 12:16:31 PM »
I'm sure there was thread/post recently about a course near Manchester with a hole that didn't seem to have many redeeming features. Can't remember its name but I think it might have been near the motorway or ship canal and have power cable issues.

Atb

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2014, 01:52:57 PM »
I'm sure there was thread/post recently about a course near Manchester with a hole that didn't seem to have many redeeming features. Can't remember its name but I think it might have been near the motorway or ship canal and have power cable issues.

Atb

Was it called something like "Pi*s-on-me"? ;D. I'm pretty sure Mark Rowlinson has played it.

I stumbled upon it independently while roaming around with Bing maps. It looks to have some awful holes. I'll try the search function.

David Whitmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2014, 02:22:14 PM »
The course I gave multiple examples from earlier is admittedly a lesser golf course (not even sure what that means, but I think you understand where I am going), but I do have an example of what I have always considered to be a bad golf hole from what many consider to be a decent golf course. It is from Shaker Run in Lebanon, Ohio. It hosted the USGA Mid-Am maybe seven or eight years ago, and some believe it to be a nice golf course.

The seventh hole is a long par four, dogleg right. I'm technologically challenged, so below is the best I was able to do as far as showing the hole. You can see it a lot clearer on google maps, but I don't know how to take a picture of that and post it. Sorry. It's very tight, and in addition to all the trees on either side of the hole, there is a lone, large tree on the inside portion of the dogleg. The second shot is a long one to a very wide, very shallow green. Very tough to hit in regulation, especially coming in with a long iron or fairway wood. To make matters worse, there is rough between the end of the fairway and the green, so you can't bounce your long iron in. It's tough for me, and I'm a decent player. I imagine it's very, very difficult for other players. I just always thought it was a stupid hole.

Kevin Stark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #44 on: October 30, 2014, 06:13:02 PM »
Well this threat just keeps on giving.

The number of par 5's appears to support the old adage that if you give an idiot enough length he's likely to hang himself. A few of these look like absolute beauties for the short hitting high handicapper. I actually rather like the odd sharp dogleg which gives a cape effect to the second shot. I often think it's a lot more interesting than simply trying to blast away from the tee over some large expanse of water. Rather oddly however, these entries, complete with trees on doglegs and the wonderful little architectural manoeuvre that is internal OOB, do not appear to be inspiring me to drop everything and throw the clubs in the car.  ;D



I forgot to mention that the trees at Bellevue GC are massive old growth cedars and firs, which prevent any sort of cape effect.

Kevin Stark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2014, 06:29:24 PM »
I could do this all day. I've played so many bad golf holes in my life. Don't forget the old "tree in the middle of the line of play on a par 3" trick. (Purdue's Ackerman Hills course) Hopefully this tree dies a painful death during their renovation.




There were two other courses that I remember that had trees in the middle of the fairway on par 4's but Google Maps says that they have both taken a dirt nap.

JBovay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2014, 07:28:08 PM »
I'm sure there was thread/post recently about a course near Manchester with a hole that didn't seem to have many redeeming features. Can't remember its name but I think it might have been near the motorway or ship canal and have power cable issues.

Atb

Thomas,

Here's the thread you mentioned:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59613.0.html

Here's another from not too long ago that may have some additional candidates for worst holes:
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59571.0.html

And lastly, a couple that prove I spend way too much time browsing this website:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59386.0.html (scroll toward the bottom of the first post for the real kicker)
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49376.0.html (I can't judge whether these holes are bad or simply unique)

I had a couple more nominations in mind, but I really try to keep things positive around here, so I'll just stick with my 90-degree dogleg right (of which this thread has proven there must be hundreds in the world).

JB

John Percival

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #47 on: October 31, 2014, 10:37:58 AM »
Howard,
Your hole is bad!
Have they ever talked about clearing a few trees at the second shot corner and moving the green to the fwy elbow?
Would be a great 4 par (tweaking the necessary tee lengths, of course).

And for my own nominee, the first at Pocono Manor?
Played it a long time ago, so dont remember if that's the name, but the hole is up, blind, with a pond hidden from view. BLECH!

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #48 on: October 31, 2014, 03:58:27 PM »
I'm sure there was thread/post recently about a course near Manchester with a hole that didn't seem to have many redeeming features. Can't remember its name but I think it might have been near the motorway or ship canal and have power cable issues.

Atb

Thomas,

This is the one;



Didsbury Golf Club is one of five adjoining courses built around 100 years ago along the flood plain of the River Mersey in South Manchester. Didsbury is far from the worst course of the five, but like all of them it suffers from damp, boggy conditions at almost any time of year.

In the seventies the Manchester orbital motorway (M60) was routed right through the course which led to unavoidable changes being made. New holes were built on a triangle of land accessed over the motorway by a footbridge and alterations made to the existing holes as necessary by architects Dave Thomas and Peter Allis (yes, him!!)
 


Apart from the nightmare walk over the bridge with six lanes of busy traffic thundering under your feet the altered course is not bad, if a little dull and uninspiring. There is though, one complete disaster of a hole - the 10th!



What is wrong with the 10th at Didsbury? Where do I start?

First of all, the proximity of the motorway means that you cannot hear yourself think. The deafening roar of the traffic, however, drowns out the hum of the high voltage electricity cables 10ft above your head. A pylon sits adjacent to the tee and the cables run directly over the fairway all the way to and over the green. That's right - the entire hole is played with 10000v electricity cables over your head!

But that's not all!  Such is the risk of stray balls clearing the high fence protecting the motorway that a local rule is implemented prohibiting the use of all clubs with a loft of less than 17 degrees. Until recently the rule was 'irons only' but I imagine that the advent of hybrids has led to the change. After checking our lofts we all took 5 woods - a club which most players are surely capable of sky-hooking! Perhaps left-handers should be banned from playing the hole at all!

I could just about accept all the above shortcomings if the hole was an architectural gem. It isn't. There is absolutely nothing there! Its disastrous environment is compounded by it being  one of the dullest bog standard tree-lined parkland holes you will ever find. It is a relief to emerge from under the wires after putting out with your head still throbbing. It can't be good for your health.

I like Peter Allis and thoroughly enjoy his commentaries. My regard for him however, has taken a big knock after playing Didsbury yesterday!








noonan

Re: World's Worst 18 - Nominations Please!
« Reply #49 on: November 01, 2014, 02:45:03 AM »
The course I gave multiple examples from earlier is admittedly a lesser golf course (not even sure what that means, but I think you understand where I am going), but I do have an example of what I have always considered to be a bad golf hole from what many consider to be a decent golf course. It is from Shaker Run in Lebanon, Ohio. It hosted the USGA Mid-Am maybe seven or eight years ago, and some believe it to be a nice golf course.

The seventh hole is a long par four, dogleg right. I'm technologically challenged, so below is the best I was able to do as far as showing the hole. You can see it a lot clearer on google maps, but I don't know how to take a picture of that and post it. Sorry. It's very tight, and in addition to all the trees on either side of the hole, there is a lone, large tree on the inside portion of the dogleg. The second shot is a long one to a very wide, very shallow green. Very tough to hit in regulation, especially coming in with a long iron or fairway wood. To make matters worse, there is rough between the end of the fairway and the green, so you can't bounce your long iron in. It's tough for me, and I'm a decent player. I imagine it's very, very difficult for other players. I just always thought it was a stupid hole.

The 13th hole on the same course is horrible. The huge elevation drop with the creek fronting the green is a poor design.

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