The impact on the play of a hole of a single small, low, well postioned mound

[Thomas Dai]

Below is an overhead of the 338 yd slighly dogleg short par-4 10th hole at Bristol & Clifton. A thoroughly nice, traditional, well groomed UK parkland course/club, not overly infested with trees, in lovely surroundings on pretty free draining land. A course well worth playing IMO.



Anyway, to get to my point.

The 10th hole has a small, low mound, probably not much more than 2 ft high, positioned about 5 yds short of the green. It's a tiny feature really, pretty inconsequential at first glance and difficult to even see from the centre of the fairway, but it seems to have a big effect on the play of the hole.

Land short and try to roll the ball onto the green - the green incidentally falls away from front-to-rear quite significantly - and the ball will stop short or roll off to either side leaving awkward next shots. Land on the far edge of the mound and the ball will whizz to the back of the green or maybe even beyond.

As you will see from the photo below, which is from the clubs fine website, the small mound is so low as to be vertually invisible from the centre of the fairway.



So my quesion is, on what other courses does a single small, low mound have a significant effect on the play of a particular hole?

For those who are interested, here is a Bing sat-map of Bristol & Clifton GC - http://binged.it/1xdCCOm

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[Adrian_Stiff]

Thomas - I can't say I have ever noticed a mound in front of the 10th. I would say a lot think the 10th is the poor hole at B & C and I know the club planned to axe it in the most recent 'proposed change' (though it never happened). It's steep slope into the green means you can't realistically play a normal shot and its all a bit of lottery from 100 yards out. The club have always talked about re-doing their greens they certainly have a lot falling away, 2, 3, 6, 10, 12, 13. B & C has a lot of good holes I just prefer across the road at Long Ashton but both are good solid tests.

[Patrick_Mucci]

# 18 at Turnberrry seems quite effective.

It's a neat feature.

Bob Von Hagge employed it on occassion.

It makes forward hole locations far more difficult

[David_Tepper]

Thomas D. -

There is a small mound in front of the 9th green on the Olympic Club Lake Course that can make run-up shots problematic.

A larger mound front and left of the 12th green (par-5) at Royal Dornoch really makes the shot into the green a challenge, even with a wedge in your hand.

DT 

[John Kirk]

From the diagram, it appears the hole plays between about 300 and 338 yards.  For most younger, stronger players, a small mound in front of this green rarely comes into play, as a lofted short iron is the normal mode of approach.  In this case, the weaker player, one who must bounce their ball into this green, will experience the effects of this mound far more often.

Similarly, stronger players would deal with this mound on longer holes, whereas the weaker players would simply pitch over it on the next (extra) shot.  As a medium-strong player, a mound of this sort comes into play on long par 4s and short par 5s, assuming flat terrain.

A single, low, well positioned mound in front of a green is a wonderful attribute, and the player will feel a sense of anticipation if he/she knows the ball will encounter the mound.

[Jon Wiggett]

Thomas,

this is one of the most underused ideas in GCA. Easy to construct (or add), low cost to maintain and simple in concept yet it can have a significant effect on how the player must approach playing the hole. The obvious example from memory would be the fourth at TOC.

Jon

[Ben Sims]

Wiggett beat me to it. It's underutilized and misunderstood as a feature. Though I don't think wholesale additions of mounds into ground where it doesn't fit is a great idea either.

Also, I tend to disagree with John Kirk a little as well. Though I be a younger, stronger player (of a handicap range in which there are far more of me than the single digit guys), I deal with the front side of greens quite a bit. A mis-hit shot that's struck on line (not an uncommon issue) would result in having to contend with this feature.

The best examples I can cite of this feature are #5 Friars Head and #2 at Stone Eagle.

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks for the examples chaps.

Another example that come to my mind is at the centre-front of the angled 12th green at the Emirates GC in Dubai, where the wee mound has quite a subtle little effect, although the nature of the grass pretty much rules out the ground game.

BTW, I know what you're getting at about the 10th at B&C Adrian, maybe not the best hole on the course, bit micky-mouse some might say, but the feature really stood out to me the last rime I was there, probably because the pin was very close to the front of the green. I like Long Ashton too by the way, although I've not played it recently. Another visit is needed (perhaps along with a visit to Portishead!).

Mounds can be such nice little subtle features, sometimes so subtle as to go pretty much unnoticed, and I guess as John highlights, they're pretty easy construct and maintain too, which must be good.

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[Tom_Doak]

Thomas:

We were just building one of these yesterday at Forest Dunes.  I've built quite a few.  I generally make them a little bigger than your example, because I want good players to be afraid of landing on the back slope of the mound and skittering through the green.

The poster child for this feature is the 4th hole at St. Andrews, my vote for the most underrated hole on the course.  That mound is not small, however.

[Scott Szabo]

There is a similar feature at Ballyneal on hole #17 that simply gives me fits.  It's a long hole at about 470, often playing into the wind.  A shot that hits the right side of the mound will bound down into a bunker well below the green, while a shot that hits the back side of the mound will propel over the green itself.  It is something that must be contended with on the second shot unless you are a bomber who has a short iron into the green.  Wonderfully difficult hole.

[Alex Lagowitz]

The 7th hole at Colgate's Seven Oaks GC has a great example of this feature.  Just short of this par-5 hole's green is a similar knob like feature that acts great as a deflector for running shots that are hit offline.  Front pins also become more testing with the knob.  Especially for longer hitters trying to run one up on the second shot, the mound can deflect shots to the left and right rough and potentially bunkers.

[Thomas Dai]

Tom's comment above regarding building front mounds "because I want good players to be afraid of landing on the back slope of the mound and skittering through the green" has reminded me of an absolute cracker, both nice and evil combined, and one where you definitely don't want to land on the back of the mound and skitter through the green - the mound front left of the 8th green at wondeful Narin & Portnoo, photo as below. Cracking mound, cracking green, cracking hole, cracking course.



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[Jon Wiggett]

I've built quite a few.  I generally make them a little bigger than your example, because I want good players to be afraid of landing on the back slope of the mound and skittering through the green.

Tom,

if you put a hollow or depression behind the mound this creates the same effect without having to build up the mound to much if thst is a problem.

Jon

[Marc Haring]

I think it's a truly fantastic design concept and agree totally with Tom Doak. Higher and it really gets you thinking about distance control. The cautious approach is to go bold but get it right and you're looking at birdie. Simple, brilliant and affective. Tried to get it on the 28th at Cumberwell Park. A bit higher and it would be there although it's still affective. Adrian Stiff the archy also did it on out 9th. Truly gets your grey cells working.

[Marc Haring]

P.S. What I love about this concept is that it can dictate the entire strategy of the hole. Smash it as close to the green as possible and you can have an incredibly difficult  pitch and run. Leave it at lob/sand wedge distance and you have the extra option of pitching it pin high and holding it (depending on wind and green firmness) Every course should have one.

[Mark Pavy]

The 17th at Prestwick has a nice wee mound short of the green.

[Thomas Dai]

I think it's a truly fantastic design concept and agree totally with Tom Doak. Higher and it really gets you thinking about distance control. The cautious approach is to go bold but get it right and you're looking at birdie. Simple, brilliant and affective. Tried to get it on the 28th at Cumberwell Park. A bit higher and it would be there although it's still affective. Adrian Stiff the archy also did it on out 9th. Truly gets your grey cells working.

Marc,

I've not been to Cumberwell but understand it's 36-holes and the 4 x 9's are known as different colours, so which holes/colours are the 9th and the 28th?

atb

[Tim Passalacqua]

5th hole at Streamsong Red.  If you challenge the water on your tee shot, then you have a clear look at the green.  If you bail out left, the mound is right in your way.  Very similar to your example, the golf ball could end up anywhere depending on trajectory and where it lands on the mound.  It is a definite obstacle, especially with firm conditions when you are looking to land the ball short or towards the front edge.  It a little taller than two feet though.

[Marc Haring]

Hi Thomas

1st Orange.

[Matthew Essig]

I was going to say the 4th at St. Andrews, but I was beat to it..... by a fair amount of time...

Love the feature. It got the best of both me and my dad.

[Marc Haring]

The 17th at Prestwick has a nice wee mound short of the green.

Ha Ha.......

[Thomas Dai]

Hi Thomas
1st Orange.

So that would be the mound in the centre-left of the photo with the hole playing from left-to-right - described as "a nasty little downhill slope at the start of the green"?
atb


(photo from Cumberwell Park website)

[Paul Gray]

Nice timing. I played a shocking course today with a tree right in front of a green. This, I appreciate, is perhaps more suited to the 'maintenance features you dislike the most' thread but if only someone had suggested to the designer that such a mound would have worked so much better than oak! 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Hi Thomas
1st Orange.

So that would be the mound in the centre-left of the photo with the hole playing from left-to-right - described as "a nasty little downhill slope at the start of the green"?
atb


(photo from Cumberwell Park website)

Thomas - No that mound is actually directly behind the green, the principle of the hole was as a short 4 you could go brave and drive it, its sorta the equivilant of 275 yards as it is quite downhill, miss the green and its a very hard up and down. Smart play is a rescue and 60-80 yard pitch. We created a number of 'fast areas' both short of the green and on the green. It is a hole you have to learn, if you get it right first time its almost by default.

Come on Paul...name that pitch.

[Jonathan Mallard]

Thomas:

We were just building one of these yesterday at Forest Dunes.  I've built quite a few.  I generally make them a little bigger than your example, because I want good players to be afraid of landing on the back slope of the mound and skittering through the green.

The poster child for this feature is the 4th hole at St. Andrews, my vote for the most underrated hole on the course.  That mound is not small, however.

What's up with the 10th at Pacific Dunes? The mound there is nearly always in play. Especially for a left pin placement.