Medinah #1 and Medinah #3

[Mike Treitler]

So after playing Bethpage Black on Monday I was invited to play Medinah #1 and Medinah #3 on Friday.  I had never played either course before so I can't really make any comments or comparisons to how the courses looked before all of the redo's.  

Medinah #1 was great and even exceeded expectations. The greens were typical Doak which is always fun and I found the layout to have several holes worthy of a top 100 ranking.  Hole 9 is absolutely awesome how the clubhouse sits perfectly in between the trees on your approach to the elevated green.   The greens on course #1 actually ran smoother than on course #3.  

The two finishing holes at #1 are nerve wrecking and can easily serve as round ruiners with a severe miss.  I shot 73 on #1 because I got up and down from everywhere but there were quite a few very tough long par 4's.  

As for #3... so much as been written about it so I don't need to go into too much detail.  We played it from 7,657 and I usually drive the ball about 260 so I played for bogey on most of the holes.  I shot 86....      

I found the first 4 holes and the last 6 holes to be incredible.  The middle holes were somewhat mediocre.   Medinah #3 jumped into my 19th spot and Medinah #1 solidly on the honorable mention list.  Although, once #1 matures I could see it jumping into my top 30.  

As always, feel free to chime in and rip my updated rankings  

1.Turnberry (Ailsa)
2.Bandon Trails
3.St. Andrews (Old Course)
4.Bandon Dunes
5.Carnoustie
6.Pacific Dunes
7.Bethpage Black
8.Kingsley Club
9.Whistling Straights
10.Arcadia Bluffs
11.Spyglass Hill
12.Crystal Downs
13.Dunes Club
14.Kingsbarns
15.Cabo Del Sol Ocean
16.Milwaukee CC
17.Lost Dunes
18.Old Macdonald
19. Medinah #3
20.Greywalls at Marquette
21.Prestwick
22.Golf Club of Scottsdale
23.St Andrews (Castle)
24.Silverleaf
25.Lawsonia Links
26.Four Seasons Punta Mita (Bahia)
27. Cabo Del Sol (Dessert)
28.Bay Harbor
29. Blackwolf Run (River)
20. Whistling Straights (Irish)
31.Glenview Club
32. Shore Acres
33.Quintero Ranch
34.Timberstone
35.Hawks Eye
36. Barton Creek (Canyons)
37. Cascata
38. Barton Creek (Foothills)
39. Erin Hills
40.. Black Wolf Run (Meadow)
Honorable Mention (No Order): Skokie CC, Coyote Moon, Wild Rock, Eagle Ridge (General), Pilgrims Run, TPC Deere Run, Fyre Lake, Medinah #1, Wolfdancer, Flintrock, Austin CC
  

[John Connolly]

Mike,

Nice to hear about your experience. I also like the first 4 holes at #3. The par 3's get gruff from many because of their "similarity" but I find the 3 that are played over water exhilarating. The 12th hole with that severely canted fairway running up to the hole is special and the 16th hole is awesome. On the face of it, 18 doesn't seem like much of a hole but don't tell Martin Kaymer that. It has plenty of drama in the right setting.

Your comments on #1 seem to be consistent with what I've heard from others.

[Mike Schott]

Hi Mike.

Why did your group decide to play #3 from the tips?

[Mike Treitler]

Mike,

Good question haha.  I guess it was a "when in Rome" type decision.  My buddy is a golf digest Rater so he wanted to see the whole course.  He shot 73 with a 3 putt on 18 so for him it was a fine decision... He hits it 70 yards past me though.

[Gary Sato]

Shore Acres at #32?   Have you played there in the last 5 years?

[Mike Treitler]

I played Shore Acres about 3 years ago... I know they have made a lot of changes that I have not seen.   I also played Bay Harbor when I was 13.... so some of the rankings should be taken with a grain of salt.  I played Spyglass when I was 15.   Currently I am 29 so its been a while.

[Mike Treitler]

Oh he's not a 3... He's a +1 or +2

[John Connolly]

Oh he's not a 3... He's a +1 or +2

Mike,

The way I see it - you had a very very special outing at #3. You played an historic golf course from its 7,600 yard tees, essentially where tour players compete from, while accompanying a 2nd standard deviation from the mean amateur player who rates for Golf Digest. Forget what anyone here in the treehouse says about it. We should be pulling up chairs listening to how your buddy carved it left on 16 to leave himself a nine iron in.

[mike_beene]

I haven't seen the tour use the full length on these long golf courses or medium length either.Maybe I have missed something, but it seems they will play some holes back some days and then others the next day.I bet you played more course than the tour or USGA would set up

[Tom_Doak]

We should be pulling up chairs listening to how your buddy carved it left on 16 to leave himself a nine iron in.

John:

You can have my chair for that.

[Jim Nugent]

Mike, what did you think of the greens on #3?  Seems like the pro's make tons of putts there, on greens that don't appear to contour much, at least on TV. 

[John Connolly]

We should be pulling up chairs listening to how your buddy carved it left on 16 to leave himself a nine iron in.

John:

You can have my chair for that.

I guess a positive golf experience can come in all shapes and sizes. A 6,000 yarder that was routed over an old farm 100 years ago by an architect from some far off land that Fred and Alice play every Sunday together in the mixer. And have a ball. And then there's a brutally long endurance test that you'd only want once in your life. I suspect there's a wee bit of value in the latter experience too.

[Greg Gilson]

Mike, thanks for sharing your experiences & sharing your list. You seem to have had a great time at Medinah. I have only played #3 and you clearly enjoyed it much more than me! I must admit that I do not mark a card when playing (probably my one & only) round at one of these great courses. I tend to smell the flowers and enjoy the walk rather than grind on a score.

It's YOUR list, not mine so I certainly am not going to debate anything - like me, you are entitled to your opinion & your own list. That said, several things do stand out. The one that I just cannot let go of is #3 at 19 & Shoreacres at 32 - especially because the 2 are relatively easily compared. You have mentioned here and elsewhere, I think,  that Shoreacres was long ago and that you found it too easy. I found Medinah #3 to be a pretty mindless march. Shoreacres was one of the most enjoyable, fun, interesting & educational rounds I have EVER played. I do not know whether the differences between us are playing ability, approach to the game or what. I just could not put both courses on the same list even....but that's my list. Thanks again for sharing yours!

[Mike Treitler]

Jim,

On Course #3 The 14th hole had a very fun natural slope from left to right where a poorly played ball could actually roll off the right side of the green down 60 yards into a runoff area and potentially in the to water.   Other than that though I found the greens to be very "normal".   They were not in great shape and only running at about a 9 so its tough to truly assess them.

Greg,

Thanks for the post.  I love Shore Acres, so its not like putting it 32 makes it a bad course.   I found the two finishing holes at Shore Acres to be kind of mediocre and as you pointed it out I just found it to be a bit too leaisurely for my liking.  I didn't find it to be a "Championship" level course in terms of difficulty.  I had the same issue at Blue Mound actually so while I have really enjoyed my two Raynor experiences, I have also found them to be a tad too forgiving.  Medinah #3 might not have the architectural iintricacies of Shore, however, there is something very exhilarating about having to hit a great shot on par 3's  over the water or else your round could be nearly ruined.   I enjoy the challenge. 

[Mike Schott]

Mike,

Good question haha.  I guess it was a "when in Rome" type decision.  My buddy is a golf digest Rater so he wanted to see the whole course.  He shot 73 with a 3 putt on 18 so for him it was a fine decision... He hits it 70 yards past me though.

Thanks Mike.

Holy crap! That is quite impressive.

[Mike Treitler]

Yeah he played great.  Was fun to watch other than the money I lost to him haha.

[JR Potts]

Jim,

On Course #3 The 14th hole had a very fun natural slope from left to right where a poorly played ball could actually roll off the right side of the green down 60 yards into a runoff area and potentially in the to water.   Other than that though I found the greens to be very "normal".   They were not in great shape and only running at about a 9 so its tough to truly assess them.
 

1.  That's the 12th Hole.
2.  Played there yesterday, thought the greens were in perfect shape.  Strange.  Maybe they didn't get to cut after the Monday-Thursday last week of constant rain.

Glad you had a nice time.  A 73 from the back, especially after all the rain we received, is amazing.  The sogginess, coupled with the cold weather, had to have the course playing about 9,000 yards.

[Bart Bradley]

I think it is interesting that the comments have been mainly about #3.  How many have seen #1 since the renovation was complete?

I was pleasantly surprised by the quality of #1 and Renaissance's new work there.  The greens are quite interesting and the course is full of good holes.  I will say, however, that I believe some additional tree removal would enhance the improvements even further.

Bart

[JR Potts]

I will say, however, that I believe some additional tree removal would enhance the improvements even further.

Bart

I agree. 

Most of the trees along the left side of the 8th hole and 9th hole should be removed (especially those horrific pines on the 8th).  There is a large tree on the left side of the 4th hole (my favorite hole on the course and second favorite on the property) that absolutely needs to go as it is a triple hazard for balls hit into the water on left off the tee.

I've played course 1 about a dozen times and it is my preferred round out there.  I figured I would let the discussion grow organically without my input as it is certainly biased.

I will say this though - having course #1 out there has given me a new appreciation for course #3.  Different courses for different horses I guess.

[PCCraig]

I will say this though - having course #1 out there has given me a new appreciation for course #3. 

Can you expand on this, JR?

[JR Potts]

I will say this though - having course #1 out there has given me a new appreciation for course #3. 

Can you expand on this, JR?

Yes. 

I have come to re-appreciate the size and the scale of Course #3 and other old, big golf courses.  I find great enjoyment in playing through hundred year-old trees and playing corridors that have been there for decades and have challenged the best in the world.  Further, I also occasionally enjoy playing a really hard, long and fair golf course.  Course #3 is a totally distinct challenge - and one the I generally take exception to constantly be dismissed in favor of quirk. 

Simply put, being able to play a different style of golf with a different challenge a hundred yards away for the challenge presented on #3, has added to the enjoyment of both.  That said, I don't fine one type of golf better or worse than the other.

[John Connolly]

JR,

I agree with that assessment of #3 completely. I'm also a bit mystified by its dismissal by the knowing masses. It's a grand, robust site to play golf upon. One of the few tree-laden courses where such arboreal emphasis can be thought of as additive. Some other well thought of courses in New Jersey and Georgia have overcome the "problem" as well. When one enumerates #3's features that are roundly pushed aside by many - similar par 3s over water, tree-heavy routing, pinched entries onto perched greens - it does indeed sound tough to love. But when it's played, it seems to transcend those reflexed (and dare I say regurgitated?) criticisms.

I am eager to play #1. It sounds great.

[Tom_Doak]

One of the few tree-laden courses where such arboreal emphasis can be thought of as additive. Some other well thought of courses in New Jersey and Georgia have overcome the "problem" as well. When one enumerates #3's features that are roundly pushed aside by many - similar par 3s over water, tree-heavy routing, pinched entries onto perched greens - it does indeed sound tough to love. But when it's played, it seems to transcend those reflexed (and dare I say regurgitated?) criticisms.

To be fair, course #3 has lost a couple of THOUSAND trees in the last few years, to promote turf health and crowd viewing for the Ryder Cup.  It used to be much more claustrophobic.

[Terry Lavin]

The main issues with Number 3 relate to the monochromatic nature of three of the par 3 holes, the relentless brutality or the par 4 holes and the the endless committee tinkering with the course and especially the greens. It's in a pretty good place now, but it's not a place for most mortals. If you highly prize Resistance to Par, it's a top 20. Hands down. If you're a Walk in the Park guy, head to Course One!!!  Finally, Medinah has a legit second option.

[mike_beene]

Is the #2 course any good?I have never heard anything about it.