Authenticating the Tillinghast Sketches update by Phil Young ...

[John Kavanaugh]

I hope Phil and Ian never run out of rope.

Why?

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

[BHoover]

I hope Phil and Ian never run out of rope.

Why?

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

Greetings, Professor Falken

[John Kavanaugh]

I hope Phil and Ian never run out of rope.

Why?

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?

Greetings, Professor Falken

War Games provides a perfect analogy. There is no way to win an argument with Moriarty. Even if his questions are answered he will doubt and have more. God forbid if Ian's third cousin twice removed ever lied about when he lost his virginity. There is no end, it's thermo nuclear insanity.

[DMoriarty]

Kavanaugh likes to pretend that my questions have been unconscionable.

To the contrary, others and I have asked only a few simple questions.  If their story were true, then the questions that drove them away should have the ultimate softballs:

They were asked to identify some basic details from Ian's grandfather's life, including the identity of his first wife and children.

If their story were true, then such information would have give us a few more data points with which to verify Ian's story, and thus shoot down my hypothesis.

But if their story is false, it becomes a much more difficult question for them to answer.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kavanaugh likes to pretend that my questions have been unconscionable.

To the contrary, others and I have asked only a few simple questions.  If their story were true, then the questions that drove them away should have the ultimate softballs:

They were asked to identify some basic details from Ian's grandfather's life, including the identity of his first wife and children.

If their story were true, then such information would have give us a few more data points with which to verify Ian's story, and thus shoot down my hypothesis.

But if their story is false, it becomes a much more difficult question for them to answer.

David,

You have proven your point. How much longer will you continue if Phil and Ian never respond?

[Bill_McBride]

How long can you beat a dead horse before there's no horse left?

[DMoriarty]

My point?  It is far from just me, Kavanaugh. My guess is this will continue until there is no doubt in anyone's mind whether or not the material is authentic. Bryan seems to think there is a still a chance it is all real, so there is that.

As for the two of us, Kavanaugh, I have a proposal. You are a betting man, so how about a wager? If Phil and Ian's story and the related paintings and drawings turn out to be authentic, I'll delete my membership here and never post on this discussion board again. But if it turns out that any portion of the material is not authentic and/or any material part of their story is false, then you will delete your membership and never post on this discussion group again.  So how about it?  Is it a bet?  Some here would consider either outcome a win.

[John Kavanaugh]

My point?  It is far from just me, Kavanaugh. My guess is this will continue until there is no doubt in anyone's mind whether or not the material is authentic. Bryan seems to think there is a still a chance it is all real, so there is that.

As for the two of us, Kavanaugh, I have a proposal. You are a betting man, so how about a wager? If Phil and Ian's story and the related paintings and drawings turn out to be authentic, I'll delete my membership here and never post on this discussion board again. But if it turns out that any portion of the material is not authentic and/or any material part of their story is false, then you will delete your membership and never post on this discussion group again.  So how about it?  Is it a bet?  Some here would consider either outcome a win.

I can't take that bet because I don't think the drawings are real either. I just wish you would shut the hell up and accept victory.

[DMoriarty]

Phil thinks they are real.  Or at least he claims he does.

[John Kavanaugh]

Phil thinks they are real.  Or at least he claims he does.

What you don't get is that thinking they are real doesn't make you a bad person.

[DMoriarty]

Had I thought Phil was a "bad person" I never would have tried to bail him out of this mess in private. Rather than listen to me and others, he chose to go all in with Ian's new story, and came back with second and now a third IMO.  That still doesn't make him a "bad person" but it does mean that this will play out in public no matter how painful it may be for you and others watch. 

Besides, Phil is obviously not the one driving their story.

[John Kavanaugh]

Had I thought Phil was a "bad person" I never would have tried to bail him out of this mess in private. Rather than listen to me and others, he chose to go all in with Ian's new story, and came back with second and now a third IMO.  That still doesn't make him a "bad person" but it does mean that this will play out in public no matter how painful it may be for you and others watch. 

Besides, Phil is obviously not the one driving their story.

You can bully a fat girl until carpal tunnel prevents her from typing but she will still suck a milkshake through a straw.  Phil ain't coming back no matter how much bait you chuck over your bow. Give up, you won.

[DMoriarty]

First, the only bully here is you.  You have no interest in any of this but are only here to harass and malign me.   Second, Phil and Ian aren't finished. When they are, and when we know all we can know about the authenticity of this material, I'll be finished too.

I am going to go back to ignoring you now.  

[John Kavanaugh]

First, the only bully here is you.  You have no interest in any of this but are only here to harass and malign me.   Second, Phil and Ian aren't finished. When they are, and when we know as all we can know about the authenticity of this material, I'll be finished too.

I am going to go back to ignoring you now. 

A bully who believes he is serving the public good is the worst and most dangerous of all.

[DMoriarty]

You should know.

[John Kavanaugh]

You should know.

I do know. I'm like an alcoholic treating a drunk. Given my age and the fact that I have been on the internet from day one I doubt there is a better person in the world at identifying and understanding the motives of a bully. You could be a case study. Why do you think that we were at one time such good friends?  I get you.

[Pete_Pittock]

John Kavanaugh
« Reply #361 on: Today at 07:00:30 PM »
 
Moriarty quote deleted


You can bully a fat girl until carpal tunnel prevents her from typing but she will still suck a milkshake through a straw.  Phil ain't coming back no matter how much bait you chuck over your bow. Give up, you won. 

 looks like you're channeling Ted Bishop
 
 

[Ken Moum]

Gawd, I hate to get involved here, but I am thoroughly confused.

While I am a interested enough in this to have read the whole thread, I think I missed something. Usually with stuff like this it's obvious that the likely culprits had something to gain

Has anyone suggested a reason WHY someone would have written a fake diary of someone who's dead?  I don't really care if it's real, and perhaps don't even think it's real at this point.

But I cannot figure out the motive.

Maybe I'm just dense.

K

[Bryan Izatt]

David,

..............................


7. This is the one where you really lose me.  I asked you whether or not you agree that, if we have found Ian's grandfather, then their story is fiction.  Your answer makes no sense to me:
Quote
I'd agree that it would mean that the Queen Victoria story was fiction.  It would certainly cast doubt on his ability to be in St Andrews in May, 1901.  Does it mean that the whole diary is fake?  Or, that the drawings are fake?  I don't know.

Honestly Bryan, the above baffles me.  Ian and Phil have the diaries, and these diaries are supposed to be a daily accounting of Ian's grandfather's life. They have told us unequivocally that the David Scott-Taylor we have found is NOT Ian's grandfather. That Ada Clara was not his first wife. That Ronald was not his first son.  That he was an medical officer in the Royal Navy, not a Sergeant in the RMLI.

If Ian's grandfather's diaries cannot even get his wife right, or his children, or his occupation, then their story (and the diaries) are fiction.  Surely you can admit at least that.

Bryan seems to think there is a still a chance it is all real, so there is that.

Just as this is where you lose me.  I never said I thought there was a chance that it is "all" real.  You are the one who is casting the discussion as an either/or - it all real or it's all fake.  I think some of it is probably aggrandized - DST treating Queen Victoria, for instance.  It's possible other parts are real.  I don't know.  You KNOW based on probabilities.  We disagree at this point in time.  Let's leave it at that.  Constantly repeating the same mantra of probabilities is not persuasive.  Let's find more factual information.

Re your statement: "If Ian's grandfather's diaries cannot even get his wife right, or his children, or his occupation, then their story (and the diaries) are fiction.

Seems like false logic to me.  Have you seen the diaries?  Do you know that they got his wife, children and occupation wrong?  Do you know that they don't have other, non-diary documentation that addresses his first wife and children, if any?  Or, a family tree that goes back to India or all the way back to Sir Walter Scott?  So, you can't PROVE that they are wrong on the family member facts, can you? 

I know they have been mute on these questions, but it could be they really don't like you and don't want to deal with you.  Or, maybe you're right and they forged it all and now they've given up and burned the diaries and drawings and will never surface again on this subject.

[Duncan Cheslett]

Anyone any idea why Ian Scott-Taylor might have taken down his Facebook page in the last few days? I quite enjoyed having him as a 'friend', despite his embarrassing habit of sharing neo-nazi Britain First propaganda.

[Rich Goodale]

Ally Sheedy was hot in "War Games."  I can't believe that she is now (and always has been) older than my wife.....

I just Googled David Moriarty, and he is ranked #1 worldwide in Tic-Tac-Toe (along with several billion others....).

[Duncan Cheslett]

Somewhere,  Phil Young told us that the DST artifacts had been stored at the solicitors' office in a large Masonic trunk, also containing Masonic regalia.

That's it. This is all clearly an international conspiracy masterminded by the Freemasons! I'm surprised that David Moriarty hasn't already got his teeth into this angle.


Unless...

[Scott Warren]

Bryan,

The entire diaries may not be fiction, but with what has been demonstrated about several significant entries, the rest is unreliable at best.

Ken,

I'd imagine the sketches, if "proven" authentic would be worth a tidy sum. And that's without considering what other articles there are to sell.

[Ulrich Mayring]

I'm with Bryan here. A number of holes have been punched into the story, just like it was done with 9/11, the JFK assassination, the "fake" moon landing and many other cases, where reality is more complex than binary reasoning.

My prediction: nothing significant will come of this, just like nothing came of the Merion debates, which were conducted in the same "spirit".

Ulrich

[David_Elvins]

My prediction: nothing significant will come of this, just like nothing came of the Merion debates, which were conducted in the same "spirit".

Nothing significant will come of it? 

A series of sketches will likely be put up for sale.  They,  will either fetch a few dollars or a few million dollars, depending on their proven authenticity.

Either way, it will be a significant outcome.