Why are the courses on OBX not world class?

[J Sadowsky]

I just came back from the Outer Banks (for the second time this year), and again I did not have the chance to golf.  My 2.5 yo and 6wk old boys are the main reason why, but from what I've read I didn't miss too much.  Not that the 3 main courses - Sea Scape, Nags Head, and Currituck are bad, but none of them seem to be anything close to world class from what I read.  (There's a fourth course in the back of the banks, I think called Duck Woods, which I would have to assume is on sand but certainly does not look it, and a number of average courses over the bridge, which I assume is not on sand).

My question is, why is this the case?

You have a beautiful vacation-like area that draws both people who "summer" (and thus potential world-class private members) and loads of vacationers (and thus potential customers for a super-high-end club for a day).  The land beneath is natural sand.  Shouldn't architects and golf-business-types be drooling over this land?  Yes, the land is expensive, and maybe that's the answer.  But there are already 3 or 4 courses built on sand, all of which are doing fine, and you would think that "fine" wouldn't be enough given the potential and the value of the land.

So why does the OBX not have a single world-class golf course?  Is it the expense of the land?  The proximity to the Sandhills?  The fact that mediocre is enough to make a profit, making "exceptional" not a sufficient priority?

PS - I am not claiming the courses there don't have their merits, and would prefer this thread not devolve into a debate over the quality of the local courses.  Unless you think that the courses of the OBX are world-class, or at least rival the best that other high-end golf-beach vacation destinations, most of which lack the OBX's abundance of sand, have to offer, please try to stick to my question, which is why the OBX isn't a better destination than it is now.

PPS - Although why there are not *more* courses on the OBX is part of the answer, and relevant to this thread, I want to make clear that it isn't the only question.  So even if zoning and environmental regulations leave the OBX with only 4 courses as a matter of law, why are they not better courses?

[Jason Kang]

I'm also curious to hear any knowledgeable comments or about any past efforts/inquiries, but maybe it's tough to get anyone to commit to an extraordinary project that may be gone after one bad hurricane season?  Those islands shift so much without a storm anyway.  And you have sand and some underrated elevation shifts about 3 hours to the southwest where erosion into the ocean isn't a concern?

A penny for anyone's Monday thoughts... 

[Mark Johnson]

I doubt the financials would make sense for its investment.   To build world class golf course, you need to either get lots of new out of state business or encourage local play.

Despite its size, due to its layout there are relatively fewer hotel beds in OBX vs other VA/Carolina locations (Myrtle, Hilton Head, Kingsmill, etc.)


Also the number of high-end accomodations for people who can pay $250+ for a round of golf are much less than the other location.    That and the whole hurricane thing.    Also, it is tough to get to from outside the region, so its not going to steal any guys trips from myrtle or hilton head.   And oh yeah for NC residents, pinehurts probably the same distance or less.

I think a better question is why aren't there more high level golf in virginia beach.   i think a much better case could be made here.

[Chris DeToro]

Agreed there's not a lot of great world class golf there, but there's alos limited land resources as well.  I believe OBX is only about a mile across in some spots? 

As a former resident, there isn't a ton of great golf in VA Beach, but Williamsburg has a lot of very good golf and is only about 45-60 min from VA Beach and lacks the traffic in the region

[Tim Gavrich]

FWIW, I haven't played Nags Head or Seascape, but I have played Currituck and Kilmarlic (not technically in the Outer Banks, but just over the bridge on the other side). Both would probably be top-10 courses in the Myrtle Beach.

[J Sadowsky]

I doubt the financials would make sense for its investment.   To build world class golf course, you need to either get lots of new out of state business or encourage local play.

Despite its size, due to its layout there are relatively fewer hotel beds in OBX vs other VA/Carolina locations (Myrtle, Hilton Head, Kingsmill, etc.)


Also the number of high-end accomodations for people who can pay $250+ for a round of golf are much less than the other location.    That and the whole hurricane thing.    Also, it is tough to get to from outside the region, so its not going to steal any guys trips from myrtle or hilton head.   And oh yeah for NC residents, pinehurts probably the same distance or less.

I think a better question is why aren't there more high level golf in virginia beach.   i think a much better case could be made here.

Just to play devil's advocate, is the difference so much to make up for the superior (i.e., sandy) land?

[Jon Wiggett]

Where is OBX?

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know the demographics of the Outer Banks ... I haven't been there since I was a kid ... but we've never been contacted about a possible golf project down that way.

Cost is not the reason for the problem ... great golf courses do not cost any more than others do.  I'd bet a good bit Pacific Dunes cost less than some of the courses there.  But, are the courses mentioned part of real estate developments?  If so, then the reason is probably simply the priorities of the developer.

[Carl Johnson]

Where is OBX?

= Outer Banks, barrier islands off the coast of North Carolina, USA. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_Banks As a long-time resident of North Carolina, I will attest that these islands are relatively hard to get to, although they do have much natural beauty.  Moreover, the Outer Banks could use less development, not more.

[Jon Wiggett]

Thanks Carl

[Dale_McCallon]

If I'm not mistaken a large bit of the land there is federally protected anyway.  I've never been much south of Kill Devil Hills/Manteo, but north of there I can't imagine there being much room left to build???  It's pretty much houses on top of houses.

Tim,

Nice call on Kilmarlic; doesn't seem to get much mention when OBX courses get brought up, but I really enjoyed it.  I like the Currituck Club as well.

Nags Head might be the tightest course I've ever played.  Almost impossible in the wind.

Can't say much about Sea Scape; I got rained out after a few holes and never had time to go back to finish up.

[Carl Johnson]

If I'm not mistaken a large bit of the land there is federally protected anyway.  I've never been much south of Kill Devil Hills/Manteo, but north of there I can't imagine there being much room left to build???  It's pretty much houses on top of houses.

Correct on Federal protection, but I can't tell you how much off the top of my head.  South of Manteo and Kill Devil Hills is much less developed, in my recollection, but I have not been out there since about 45 years ago.  I need to go back.  The land can change dramatically with hurricanes and other storms -- it is very fragile.  Inlets open and close -- we (U.S. and N.C. taxpayers) spend far too much money trying to maintain the status quo on land that is regularly reorganized by the whims of nature.

[Bill Gayne]

Combination of high heat, lack of fresh water, hurricanes and a narrow strip of unstable shifting sand.

[Scott Weersing]

So why is OBX not Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head or Ocean City?

Why are there not more golf courses there as there is a lot of vacationers there every summer?

Yes there is a lot of sand in the OBX but it is very flat and tidal surges could floor and wash away a golf course. It has not happened yet.

I know, not a very good answer.

I think that people don't care about links golf and so the courses there meet the need and demand. If the courses were crowded and turned people away, then someone would find land to build a course and homes on it. So perhaps there is a land shortage.

I would love to see a links course near Jockey's Ridge. http://frogsview.wordpress.com/2013/12/01/aerial-views-of-jockeys-ridge-sand-dunes-outer-banks/

But I am not sure how much play it would get from September to May. I guess, it you build it they will come.

So, why aren't OBX courses world class? Not enough world class land and no vision by developers.

There is some links land in Virginia Beach where i live, but it is right next to Oceana Naval air station and the Navy would not allow development. And tourists don't want links courses. They want island greens with lots of water.

[Bill_McBride]

My son spent a summer during his early college years (25 years ago, OMG) working for the pro at Duck Woods.  We went down there from Northern Virginia for a few days, played there once and had a great time.  The osprey nests and David's -1 round were the highlights but the course was okay.   

[Mark Johnson]

I don't know the demographics of the Outer Banks ... I haven't been there since I was a kid ... but we've never been contacted about a possible golf project down that way.

Cost is not the reason for the problem ... great golf courses do not cost any more than others do.  I'd bet a good bit Pacific Dunes cost less than some of the courses there.  But, are the courses mentioned part of real estate developments?  If so, then the reason is probably simply the priorities of the developer.

Also remember that OBX is a huge expense.   More than 200 miles north to south with dispersed guests.   The closest thing to a major area would be the Nagshead/kitty hawk area but 1) that is the most downmarket of all OBX and 2) still nowhere near the population density of myrtle or HHI.