Willie Park Jr (Course Listings) and (Photo tours)

[Sven Nilsen]

I just stumbled on this thread and forgive me for not reading all the posts. It's interesting and I'll get to it eventually.


As far as Tumble Brook in Bloomfield, Conn., which is listed as a 9-hole Park course, I think the first 18 was his design. In the Hartford Courant of Nov. 26, 1922, is a detailed story on the building of Tumble Brook including a photo of Park on site. The course is listed as 18 holes and gives yardages for each.The second  nine is officially listed as an Orrin Smith-William Mitchell design. Smith, from Connecticut, worked for Park and was construction superintendent for the nearby Shuttle Meadow, a Park design, in about 1916. The newspaper accounts of Tumble Brook that I have seen do not, as far as I can recall, list Smith as being on site. However, when you play the original 18 in order the yardages match up to the Hartford Courant article. (There is a third nine designed by George Fazio.) I also think the hole styles and especially the greens of the second 9 match Park's work. Some alterations have taken place over the years that have messed up one  hole, a par-4, and improved another that was originally and uphill, 90-degree dogleg par-4. If I can remember how to post articles, I'll do that here.

Anthony:


Am I reading this right that you think the second half of Park's plan was built years later?


What's your thought as to when the second 9 holes were actually constructed?  The course is noted as having only 9 holes until up around 1931.


Sven

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Right, sorry for the confusion. I think the second nine was built by Orrin Smith and William Mitchell. Construction, according to a Hartford Courant article announcing the news holes, did not begin until 1947. A 1934 aerial of the course shows only nine holes.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Tumble Brook 1934. The dogleg par-4 in the center of the image is the first hole, followed by a par-3 and then a par-5.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

1951 Tumble Brook. I was wrong in the earlier post. Not all the back-9 holes line up to the yardages given in the 1922  Hartford Courant article, but many do. The greens, though, match those on the front 9.

[MCirba]

Did Willie Park Jr. do work on Newport Country Club in 1895 to get it ready for the first USGA championships?

I ask because on June 16, 1895, the New York Sun reported;

There is, too, a new 18-hole course to be opened, on which Park is to work for a fortnight or more in July designing intricate hazards and puzzling bunkers.

That same month, on June 25th the New York Times reported;

The Executive Committee of the Newport Country Club has decided to begin at once the laying out of a golf course for the Championship contests.   They do not take place till October,  but it was thought desirable to have work commenced at once, and a contractor has already been engaged.  It is thought to have the course a very stiff one, and some peculiar bunkers are to be constructed.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

The course was 9-holes when the Am and U.S. Open were played on it. I think H.H. Barker came in and did work later on.

[MCirba]

Anthony,

Yes, it was definitely only 9 holes but I'm wondering if Park toughened up the course in some manner for the 1895 Championships.

On October 10th, 1895, the Chicago Tribune reported;

The Newport links has now been completed with an entire circuit of roughly two miles.  The distances between the holes vary from 285 yards to 485 yards.   The course is plentifully besprinkled with hazards, natural and artificial, and will take some far and sure driving.

Given that the Willie Davis nine-hole course was originally built in 1893, I'm wondering if this wasn't a longer, or perhaps modified derivative put in place for the championship?

[Sven Nilsen]

The course was 9-holes when the Am and U.S. Open were played on it. I think H.H. Barker came in and did work later on.

Here's the first info I have on the course having 18 holes.  Well before Barker, and supposedly attributed to Davis.

Aug. 1899 Golf Magazine -

[Anthony Gholz]

Ben:


This article from the Detroit Free Press 1938 covers Pine Lake's Automobile Club beginnings.  It clearly indicates that Park did the first 7 holes and maybe 9, "… but it included none of the holes that so plague present golfers…."  Is this another Meadowbrook, with WP doing six and which are going to remain after the 2016 rebuild?  Or do you have subsequent info? 


Sounds to me that maybe the PL members should stop playing in "The Willie."


Tony

[BCowan]

Tony and others,

   I haven't fired up the laptop due to being out of town.  Much easier to search.  Tony, great find.  Can u paste the link of the article onto this thread?   I don't have any info other then verbally that there is basically no Park jr left at Pine Lakes.  Hopefully a Park Jr society will form in the near future 

[Anthony Gholz]

Ben:


My computer talent is negligible obviously.  Trying again:

[Niall C]

You can put Park down for designing a course at Versailles and another two in Vienna, one of which was private. I also have a note of him designing a course in England at Matlock Baths. According to the Missing Links website the course ceased to exist c.1920 and probably was only a 9 holer.


All of the above courses were laid out 1900/1901.


Niall

[BCowan]

Anthony,

   Sorry, having trouble reading this.  You are sure Park Jr did the Red 9 at Tumble Brook Country Club?  Smith did the 2nd 9? 

MCirba,

I'm going to have to go through Gullane thread. 

[Bret Lawrence]

Ben,


Here is a blown up version of the article.  The first column continues to the second page as does the second column.

[BCowan]

Ben


I recently came across an article from 1920 discussing 10 clubs in Canada that were associated with Willie Park Jr.  According to the article, Park had recently renovated and brought the courses up to date or built entirely new layouts for these clubs:


1.  Mount Bruno C.C. near Montreal
2.  Beaconsfield C.C. of Montreal
3.  Royal Montreal Golf Club
4.  St. Ann's near Montreal
5.  Whetlock C.C. of Halifax
6.  Winnipeg C.C.
7.  Ottawa C.C.
8.  Toronto C.C.
9.  Abitibi C.C.
10. Lake Minotaur C.C.


My knowledge of courses in Canada is very limited.   I see several of the courses in this article are already on your list, but there are a few not included.  I am not sure if these courses go by a different name today or if they no longer exist?


I also see your listing of Whitlock C.C. had some questions associated with it.  Maybe this listing for Whetlock in Halifax will help? 


Here is a link to the article (2nd column):


http://fultonhistory.com/highlighter/highlight-for-xml?uri=http%3A%2F%2Ffultonhistory.com%2FNewspapers%25206%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Evening%2520Telegram%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Evening%2520Telegram%25201920%2520Mar-%2520Apr%2520Grayscale%2FNew%2520York%2520NY%2520Evening%2520Telegram%25201920%2520Marl-%2520Apr%2520Grayscale%2520-%25201145.pdf&xml=http%3A%2F%2Ffultonhistory.com%2FdtSearch%2Fdtisapi6.dll%3Fcmd%3Dgetpdfhits%26u%3D4705463%26DocId%3D11838043%26Index%3DZ%253a%255cIndex%2520I%252dE%252dV%26HitCount%3D9%26hits%3D76%2B20e%2B254%2B255%2B427%2B442%2B47d%2B502%2Bede%2B%26SearchForm%3D%252fFulton%255fNew%255fform%252ehtml%26.pdf&openFirstHlPage=false


Bret

Abitibi CC
Lake Minotauc(l) CC
Bowness G.C.
Kentvile G.C (NS)
Sennevill CC (QC)

Bret,

   Ian Andrew said he didn't know about these courses as to Park Jr's involvement. I'll go through ur link. Some can be hard to read.  Does the article in which you blew up confer Anthony's suspicion that Smith built Park's plan on 2nd 9? 

[Bret Lawrence]

Ben,


I think this article in 1922 confirms that Willie Park Jr. designed an 18 hole layout for Tumble Brook.  I am not 100% sure whether Orrin Smith built Parks holes or designed some of his own. 


I would need to see Willie Park's 18 hole layout to confirm this.  Orrin Smith started his GCA career with Park, so it wouldn't be that far fetched.  I have never been to Tumble Brook, so Anthony would certainly know more about this course than I do.


Bret

[Anthony Gholz]

Ben:


This is an enlargement of the part of the Free press article that says "none of the holes that so plague present golfers.  I have to review the Tumbleweed article closer.


BTW I've had a difficult time getting on gca today so this is the first time I saw your post.
Tony

[Sven Nilsen]

Two more for the list:


La Boulle course (France)
Lombardzide (Ostend, Belgium)


Both cited in an Oct. 10, 1916 Asheville Citizen-Times article.

[Bret Lawrence]

Anthony,

Yes, it was definitely only 9 holes but I'm wondering if Park toughened up the course in some manner for the 1895 Championships.

On October 10th, 1895, the Chicago Tribune reported;

The Newport links has now been completed with an entire circuit of roughly two miles.  The distances between the holes vary from 285 yards to 485 yards.   The course is plentifully besprinkled with hazards, natural and artificial, and will take some far and sure driving.

Given that the Willie Davis nine-hole course was originally built in 1893, I'm wondering if this wasn't a longer, or perhaps modified derivative put in place for the championship?

Mike,


  I recently came across an article from The Sun dated July 22, 1895.  The article discusses the Newport Golf Club prior to the first U.S. Open/Amateur.  Willie Davis had been working on the new course at Newport for a few months prior to Park's arrival.  It sounds like Park was only in town to play a match against Davis.  Willie Park praised the new course and then moved on to Watch Hill to finish his design at the Misquamicut Club.  Here is the entire article, found in Column 1:


http://tinyurl.com/hygto68


Bret

[MCirba]

Bret,

Thanks for sharing that terrific article that answers my questions.   Much obliged!

All,

I was reading "The Confidential Guide - Vol 1" last night and couldn't help but note how many of Park Jr.'s courses in GB&I were highly rated.   His body of work is quite astounding.

[Niall C]

You can put Park down for designing a course at Versailles and another two in Vienna, one of which was private. I also have a note of him designing a course in England at Matlock Baths. According to the Missing Links website the course ceased to exist c.1920 and probably was only a 9 holer.


All of the above courses were laid out 1900/1901.


Niall

Ben


Se above. Can I suggest it might be worth putting the two courses at Vienna and the course at Versaillies on the list so that if anyone knows anything more about them they can chip in ?


Niall

[Sven Nilsen]

Bret and Mike:


There's a July 14, 1895 New York Sun article that precedes the one linked to by Bret.  It discusses how members of Newport requested Park to visit their course.  It doesn't go into any detail as to whether or not he was to suggest any changes, but the note is contained in a paragraph discussing how he had laid out new courses and given suggestions on existing ones.


With Mike's article, there's enough smoke to think he was at least brought in to offer his thoughts on the course.


Sven

[MCirba]

Sven,

Thanks for the additional information but I can't find the article at any of the usual sources. Would you be so kind as to post it here? Thanks!