[Ville Nurmi]

Askernish was green last week! And the rough was really thick. They must have had a lot of rain...

Still it is great fun!

Next year again,
Ville

[Jon Wiggett]

I take it you mean my second point Brian. Unfortunately bold type does not show up on quotes. Try using colour like Mr. M

Ryan,

full irrigation is great if you can keep it under control which means here in the UK you might need to use the fairway irrigation on a handful of occasions in the average summer. Unfortunately many/most cannot resulting in green courses even through a drought and generally poorer playing conditions costing much more to achieve.

Jon

That's the point.

[Josh Stevens]

The membership of Rye is all Dukes, Earls and Lords and they are all also members back in town at Sunningdale, Walton or Swinley.  They make it very clear that Rye is purely a winter course - they only pop out for a hit when its too boggy back in London.  In summer its like playing on skates, drunk and blindfolded

[Joe Hancock]

I played Rye once every summer for five years.  Kent is dry, it was dead apart from greens and tees.

Interesting golf.  Not sure I would want to make a habit of it

I agree w/ Jon. Saying brown grass= dead grass is the equivalent of saying a tree with no leaves is a dead tree.....

Joe

[Sean_A]

I am very dubious about about full whack watering in the UK - most especially for sand-based or heathland courses.  I know folks say the super can control everything and make sure the water only goes where it is needed blah blah blah.  My experience tells me either I have a very different idea than most of how links should ideally play and or supers over-water.  ATB mentions Burnham, the dunes part of the Channel always plays keener and the greens are always firmer than the Champ course.  I can't quite understand why.

Ciao

[James Boon]

We dont have fairway sprinklers at Notts anymore.

When the new irrigation system went in 4 or so years ago, the old fairway irrigation was removed. There has obviously been other work under the watchful eye's of Gordon Irvine and Alistair Begg, and the hard work of our course manager Phil, but the fairways are in much better condition throughout the year than they seemed to be with a sprinkler system?

I believe that most fairways have a valve that can be plugged into for hand watering if required, but this is something used hardly ever or very sparingly as far as I can tell?

Over the last few years whenever we've had a dry spell in the summer, the fairways take on the beautiful brown tinge and they play nice and firm and fast, just as I remember heathland courses playing when I was a kid, and not unlike the true links experience either.

Cheers,

James

[Jon Wiggett]

The membership of Rye is all Dukes, Earls and Lords and they are all also members back in town at Sunningdale, Walton or Swinley.  They make it very clear that Rye is purely a winter course - they only pop out for a hit when its too boggy back in London.  In summer its like playing on skates, drunk and blindfolded

Or maybe it is that you just can't skate Josh

[Josh Stevens]

If you had had the lunch we had there, you would struggle to stay upright as well.

[Thomas Dai]

We dont have fairway sprinklers at Notts anymore.

When the new irrigation system went in 4 or so years ago, the old fairway irrigation was removed........the fairways are in much better condition throughout the year than they seemed to be with a sprinkler system?

James

A very interesting observation.

Sean,

Ref Burnham, it would be interesting to get sight of the water usage figures on a hole-by-hole and fairway/green/tee basis for each of the two courses. The figures might tell the story.

atb

[Bill_McBride]

If you had had the lunch we had there, you would struggle to stay upright as well.

+1.    Way better than Muirfield.  Not as liquid though.  Although I guess it could be. 

[Mark Chaplin]

Lord Disher of Rye?

Josh - it may have been dry in Kent but Rye isn't in Kent, try Sussex, home of Harvey's of Lewes makers of a mighty fine Best Bitter and Brighton & Hove Albion aka the Seagulls.

[Jon Wiggett]

If you had had the lunch we had there, you would struggle to stay upright as well.

Though I can understand the temptation of the lunch a Rye maybe not getting blathered would help.

[Padraig Dooley]

Mullingar didn't have an automatic irrigation system on tees or greens around 99 or 2000, would hand water the greens if they needed moisture. They rarely did, it's one of the wettest places in Ireland!

They made some course modifications around then, can't remember if an automatic system was added. More then likely was.

[Tom_Doak]

Note= due to an under supply of water, and over demand, the head greenskeeper on TOC, Walter Woods, still hand watered dry areas on the course with a hose.

Walter Woods' take on hand watering was that not many guys would overwater an area of turf if they had to stand there and do it by hand.  [Whereas, pressing a button on the automatic system and letting that overwater the course is much too easy.]

When he did water the course, he tended to flood it, one or two holes at a time.  The picture I've chosen of St. Andrews for the new Confidential Guide is of the 4th green being watered back in the droughty summer of 1982.  By the time that fellow was finished, there was water standing on the green.

[Thomas Dai]

Note= due to an under supply of water, and over demand, the head greenskeeper on TOC, Walter Woods, still hand watered dry areas on the course with a hose.

Walter Woods' take on hand watering was that not many guys would overwater an area of turf if they had to stand there and do it by hand.  [Whereas, pressing a button on the automatic system and letting that overwater the course is much too easy.]

When he did water the course, he tended to flood it, one or two holes at a time.  The picture I've chosen of St. Andrews for the new Confidential Guide is of the 4th green being watered back in the droughty summer of 1982.  By the time that fellow was finished, there was water standing on the green.

I've seen standing water from hand held hoses, or hoses left lying on the ground, during the daytime too, not at St-A, but at other courses in years gone by.

However, we don't usually see what goes on in the middle of the night when most sprinkler systems are active. I'd be curious to know what level of standing water there'd be on an average tee or green or fairway or putting green or range in the wee small hours immediately after the valves were closed.

atb

[Josh Stevens]

Lord Disher of Rye?

Josh - it may have been dry in Kent but Rye isn't in Kent, try Sussex, home of Harvey's of Lewes makers of a mighty fine Best Bitter and Brighton & Hove Albion aka the Seagulls.

Oops, quite correct, but I guess only a 5 iron to the county border

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Tony,

How can you tell whether or not a course is irrigated?

I looked in vain for a sprinkler head at Goswick and then mentioned to the pro shop how amazing the conditioning of the course was considering the lack of water and was informed that they indeed had irrigation but that it was entirely hidden.

If I had not asked I would have walked away assuming that the course conditions were natural.

How do you qualify a course as Being totally natural?

 By the way, I fly back home to NYC area  in a few hours. Come and visit us in the USA!

 Cheers!

Malcolm

[Adrian_Stiff]

Note= due to an under supply of water, and over demand, the head greenskeeper on TOC, Walter Woods, still hand watered dry areas on the course with a hose.

Walter Woods' take on hand watering was that not many guys would overwater an area of turf if they had to stand there and do it by hand.  [Whereas, pressing a button on the automatic system and letting that overwater the course is much too easy.]

When he did water the course, he tended to flood it, one or two holes at a time.  The picture I've chosen of St. Andrews for the new Confidential Guide is of the 4th green being watered back in the droughty summer of 1982.  By the time that fellow was finished, there was water standing on the green.

I've seen standing water from hand held hoses, or hoses left lying on the ground, during the daytime too, not at St-A, but at other courses in years gone by.

However, we don't usually see what goes on in the middle of the night when most sprinkler systems are active. I'd be curious to know what level of standing water there'd be on an average tee or green or fairway or putting green or range in the wee small hours immediately after the valves were closed.

atb

I don't think standard watering via the pop ups for 5 or 10 minutes would result in puddling on a USGA green or one well draining. Independent head control is good but some bits can still get double. There is no doubt hand watering is much better. There is a little trick if you wear conventional sunglasses you can spot the drier areas much earlier/better than without glasses, if you just keep those dry patches from further drying everything else is likely to be perfect. Time equals money and many greenkeepers do use the pop ups too much, I would almost say unless the greenkeeper is doing some hand watering he probably is over watering....however for all the rules you can't adjust what falls from the sky and certainly here in the UK there are plenty of times when there are no drier patches on the high spots on the greens so by definition the rest of the green probably has too much water. Regular sand top dressing is a great combat, but maybe its better by hand and then avoid the high spots.

[Thomas Dai]

Adrian,

Thanks for the tip about viewing through sunglasses. I shall have a go. Interesting comment about if no hand watering there's probably overwatering.

As to what falls out of the sky, I have wondered if a sprinkler system set to come on at some time in the middle of the night can be switched off remotely, say from a 'phone, if rain occurs earlier that evening, thus preventing 'double' watering.

atb

[Jon Wiggett]

Adrian,



As to what falls out of the sky, I have wondered if a sprinkler system set to come on at some time in the middle of the night can be switched off remotely, say from a 'phone, if rain occurs earlier that evening, thus preventing 'double' watering.

atb

Phone control or remote control of the irrigation computer has been about at least 10 years.

I totally agree with Adrian's last post.

Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks Jon. I kinda figured this might be the case. Dark ages where I am though!
atb

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tony,

How can you tell whether or not a course is irrigated?



Malcolm

Great Question. 


I would hope that more would have been named on this thread but I think people are a bit nervous of making the same mistake as you did. e.g. I believe that Narin and Portnoo had no fairway irrigation, but in my one round there in June I wasn't checking for sprinkler heads.  I could be wrong.

I started by wishing that everyone had had the experience of playing a fast running links course. Others have added that irrigation systems are fine but the porblem is making sure they are only used when essential.   If the later is the case is there any difference?   Probably not a lot in fairness, I've enjoyed fiery conditins on both kinds of courses but not as often when the do have irrigation. And so Yes I do think there is a small difference based on my experiences.  Maybe its good for a links course to get dried out to extreme stress levels every few years.  I don't dispute that more people have more fun playing St Andrews as it is, because they are able to e.g. put a little water on the night after they fill in the divots with sand seed mix, if it doesn't rain. But unlike Josh Stevens I liked playing Rye when there were scruffy lies everywhere, it added something special to the experience.


As an analogy, I love live music and am delighted that PA systems to day are so very good, and if you want to see a 'popular' act they will be needed to project the music in a large hall.  However sit in a small room, or an Irish pub, where the band needs no PA and the experince is undoubtedly different.  You wont get to see the famous bands under these conditions but if you're really into music you will cherish the times when you are close enough to watch the musicians communicate with each others by their eyes alone. Their skill set may not be so high, the material less familiar to you, but if they're 'half way decent' the experience is one to cherish.

[Thomas Dai]

......I believe that Narin and Portnoo had no fairway irrigation, but in my one round there in June I wasn't checking for sprinkler heads.  I could be wrong.

Correct Tony, no fairway irrigation at N&P. Out that way there's none at Dunfanaghy or Portsalon either. Nor as previously mentioned at Rosapenna OTM but the SH course does have some. Don't recall any at Ballyliffin Old but the Glashedy has fairway sprinklers. Royal Portrush Dunluce has fairway. Castlerock doesn't. Not sure about Portstewart Strand.
atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

......I believe that Narin and Portnoo had no fairway irrigation, but in my one round there in June I wasn't checking for sprinkler heads.  I could be wrong.

Correct Tony, no fairway irrigation at N&P. Out that way there's none at Dunfanaghy or Portsalon either. Nor as previously mentioned at Rosapenna OTM but the SH course does have some. Don't recall any at Ballyliffin Old but the Glashedy has fairway sprinklers. Royal Portrush Dunluce has fairway. Castlerock doesn't. Not sure about Portstewart Strand.
atb

Most of the North West links have no fairway irrigation.

...Still waiting for examples of course with no irrigation or just manual watering points... (sounds like Rosapenna OTM is an example of the latter case from your previous post)

[Cristian]

......I believe that Narin and Portnoo had no fairway irrigation, but in my one round there in June I wasn't checking for sprinkler heads.  I could be wrong.

Correct Tony, no fairway irrigation at N&P. Out that way there's none at Dunfanaghy or Portsalon either. Nor as previously mentioned at Rosapenna OTM but the SH course does have some. Don't recall any at Ballyliffin Old but the Glashedy has fairway sprinklers. Royal Portrush Dunluce has fairway. Castlerock doesn't. Not sure about Portstewart Strand.
atb

Ballyliffin Old did not have any fairway sprinklers when I was there. It is an amazing place to visit and play both Glashedy (with fairway irrigation) and the Old; the difference is amazing and will win over any advocate of green fairways in summer.

Murcar and Royal Aberdeen are also side by side with Murcar having no sprinklers on the fairway, whilst RA does. However at RA it is used sparingly; when we were there during a dry summer (relatively dry that is) a few years ago the fairways at Murcar were brown, and at RA they were brownish with a haze of green, still playing quite fast and firm. So it can be done correctly...

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