HBO Real Sports- Down Turn in Golf

[Pete Balzer]

http://sports.yahoo.com/video/hbo-real-sports-downturn-golf-050000729.html

[Michael Moore]

This clip has Byrant Gumbel "reporting" that the fifteen-inch hole is three and a half times bigger than the traditional hole. It is in fact more than twelve times bigger. Pure propaganda.

[John Kavanaugh]

It's a horrible game played by small selfish people.  Even those of us who love it secretly wish it would go away.

[JLahrman]

This clip has Byrant Gumbel "reporting" that the fifteen-inch hole is three and a half times bigger than the traditional hole. It is in fact more than twelve times bigger. Pure propaganda.

I can't seem to view the video, but isn't the hole 4.25 inches wide and the ball is about 1.6 inches wide?

[David Stamm]

The course was Pauma Valley CC, King's home course.

Side note: Gumbels chip in was right into the pin. The 15 in cup had nothing to do with it.


I don't believe for a second that an hour was shaved off the time of a normal round, for beginners. You can make data say whatever you want. A beginner will thin it, shank it, chili dip it, slice it, etc, etc, and they haven't even reached the green yet. Lest we forget, the most shots expended by the hack, according to Dave Pelz's findings, are within 100 yards of the green, before they even putted!


King is a sale guys. He was Taylor Made's very first salesman in fact. Taylor Made/Adidas is a "growth" company. It's ironic that King is concerned with "where the game is heading", when on his watch, and with the proliferation of ridiculous distance-drivers, the game began it's decline. The technological advances have done nothing to stop the downward spiral, and he wants us to listen to him on how to fix it? Right.

I guess this means Taylor Made is surrendering the putter segment of the market?

[Tim Bert]

This clip has Byrant Gumbel "reporting" that the fifteen-inch hole is three and a half times bigger than the traditional hole. It is in fact more than twelve times bigger. Pure propaganda.

I can't seem to view the video, but isn't the hole 4.25 inches wide and the ball is about 1.6 inches wide?

Bryant Gumbel is referencing diameter increase and Michael is pointing out that total area wise it is much bigger than what the increase to diameter would make it seem.

[JLahrman]

This clip has Byrant Gumbel "reporting" that the fifteen-inch hole is three and a half times bigger than the traditional hole. It is in fact more than twelve times bigger. Pure propaganda.

I can't seem to view the video, but isn't the hole 4.25 inches wide and the ball is about 1.6 inches wide?

Bryant Gumbel is referencing diameter increase and Michael is pointing out that total area wise it is much bigger than what the increase to diameter would make it seem.

I see. That would be accurate then, multiplying the diameter by pi.

[John Kavanaugh]

Here is a link to what Pi r 2 means. http://www.math.com/tables/geometry/circles.htm

I am not sure I agree completely with Mr. Moore's assertion that the total hole area comes into play as opposed to just the circumference which is only around three times larger. (Pi D)  As a matter of reason I can see the large hole rejecting approach shots that hit the cup.  It is an interesting argument.

Either way it is just another manner to bring more annoying people to the game.

[David Stamm]

 As a matter of reason I can see the large hole rejecting approach shots that hit the cup.  It is an interesting argument.

 

This is a great point that I had not considered before.

[Bill_McBride]

This clip has Byrant Gumbel "reporting" that the fifteen-inch hole is three and a half times bigger than the traditional hole. It is in fact more than twelve times bigger. Pure propaganda.

I can't seem to view the video, but isn't the hole 4.25 inches wide and the ball is about 1.6 inches wide?

Bryant Gumbel is referencing diameter increase and Michael is pointing out that total area wise it is much bigger than what the increase to diameter would make it seem.

I see. That would be accurate then, multiplying the diameter by pi.

Pi x D = Circumference

Pi x D/2 squared = Area

I vividly remember my kids saying about geometry, "When would I ever need this stuff in the future?"

GolfClubAtlas!

[JLahrman]

Pi x D = Circumference

Pi x D/2 squared = Area

I vividly remember my kids saying about geometry, "When would I ever need this stuff in the future?"

GolfClubAtlas!

Yes that's true professor. I was thinking more of the circumference of the lip (because that's what putts need to catch) instead of the area of the circle (since the ball generally isn't being dropped in from above). But your formulas are accurate.

It must be the Austin heat getting to my head now that I'm back from Michigan.

[John McCarthy]

Here is a link to what Pi r 2 means. http://www.math.com/tables/geometry/circles.htm

I am not sure I agree completely with Mr. Moore's assertion that the total hole area comes into play as opposed to just the circumference which is only around three times larger. (Pi D)  As a matter of reason I can see the large hole rejecting approach shots that hit the cup.  It is an interesting argument.

Either way it is just another manner to bring more annoying people to the game.

I am told the girth is important.

[William_G]

keep those larger cups on the par 3 courses

shorten the distance golf balls travel

FWIW...Mr. King has no credibility beyond his own wallet

[Bill Gayne]

The long putter will be accepted back into the rules of golf before any type of big hole.

[Chris DeToro]

keep those larger cups on the par 3 courses

shorten the distance golf balls travel

FWIW...Mr. King has no credibility beyond his own wallet

how would shortening the distance golf balls travel help grow the game? 

[Garland Bayley]

keep those larger cups on the par 3 courses

shorten the distance golf balls travel

FWIW...Mr. King has no credibility beyond his own wallet

how would shortening the distance golf balls travel help grow the game? 

Less land for courses = less cost.
Reduction in difference between strong players and weak players gives weak players a better feeling about the game.
Shortening the distance golf balls travel prevents them from reaching bad places off line, keeping wild players more in the game.
Puts more emphasis on hitting the ball, and less on the mundane putting of the ball.
Those are just some of the more obvious ones.

[Garland Bayley]

The large hole is a stupid idea. Nonplayers often go to miniature golf courses and play to a standard size hole.

Give new players a little bigger ball to hit, but have them switch it out to a regular sized ball for putting.
This could actually be done within the rules, because the size is a minimum limit.

[Bill_Yates]

Bottom line - If a course in your area switched to all large holes, would you go there to play?

If you (avid golfers) don't, then who do you think will fill the course in order to "revive" the game?

[noonan]

This clip has Byrant Gumbel "reporting" that the fifteen-inch hole is three and a half times bigger than the traditional hole. It is in fact more than twelve times bigger. Pure propaganda.

I can't seem to view the video, but isn't the hole 4.25 inches wide and the ball is about 1.6 inches wide?

Bryant Gumbel is referencing diameter increase and Michael is pointing out that total area wise it is much bigger than what the increase to diameter would make it seem.

I see. That would be accurate then, multiplying the diameter by pi.

Pi x D = Circumference

Pi x D/2 squared = Area

I vividly remember my kids saying about geometry, "When would I ever need this stuff in the future?"

GolfClubAtlas!

Always buy the biggest pizza

[Mark Pavy]

15" holes are not the solution.

The game does not need to be butchered to get more people playing.
I would suggest the following:

1. Much slower greens
2. Develop a new tee, anyone ever seen a kid try and tee the ball up for the first time....painful. Make it rubber, with a wide base and easy to rest the ball on.
3. Make it compulsory for all social players to play all shots off this tee. Only members should be allowed to play off the deck.
4. Much slower greens
5. Much slower greens
6. See 1,4 and 5.

[Jonathan Webb]

Below is from an email I received . . .

"I was asked to be on film with Bryant Gumbel of HBOs Real Sports to talk about the golf industry. They said they would provide a balanced perspective.

When we went to filming, I did my best when possible to provide a positive spin to the questions. I talked about golf being a $70B industry that employs, 2M workers and gives more to charity than all other sports combined. I also talked about golf burning 1300 calories riding in a cart and 2000 walking. When I told Gumbel most golf was played on public courses at an average of only $28/round, it seemed to stun him. (Gumbel told me he is hooked on golf and absolutely loves it.) I also explained that we predicted golf’s turn-around from an investment stand point in 2012 semi- annual Golf & Resort Investment Report (2013 Year End Wrap-up attached), which was picked up in major publications like Bloomberg, NY Times, Business Week and others. The median price of golf after seven down years, was up 11% in 2013. I then explained why I am bullish about golf’s future.

All that being said, I have no idea what will be left on the cutting room floor from our six hours of filming. We are just hoping some of golf’s great positive qualities will be seen. Everyone is aware of the fact that golf has had some tough times. However, as an outspoken proponent of golf’s bright future, I believe that there is not enough positive press associated with the future Golf & Resort Investment Report.

 of golf.

If you would like more information on golf ‘s turn around you can click on the link below to our If you did not see our New Investor’s Sentiment Survey which indicates that golf investors have a decidedly positive outlook on golf’s future for the first time in years, the link to that Survey is above.

Below is HBO Real Sports promo piece from the HBO website:

The Future of Golf Producer: Nick Dolin

During the late 1990s and early 2000s, the golf industry saw its popularity soar and business boom. Thanks in part to superstar Tiger Woods, young and old alike were drawn to the sport like never before, as evidenced by strong TV ratings, raucous crowds, a retail explosion, and most of all, a massive building boom that saw roughly 5,000 golf courses built over nearly two decades.

Most observers and industry executives agree that the bubble has officially burst, and the golf business is slowly dying. Over the last eight years, participation is down 20% nationwide and more courses have closed than opened in the U.S. annually. Industry leaders believe drastic measures are needed to ensure the future of the sport. Among the proposals are a 15-inch cup, versus the traditional four and one-quarter-inch hole, an entertaining driving range game called Top Golf, and Foot Golf, which is golf played on a regular course, but with a soccer ball. Host Bryant Gumbel speaks with industry leaders, including Jack Nicklaus, the most decorated golfer of all time, about the state of the sport and what needs to be done quickly to save it."

 
Best Regards,
 
My Image
Steven M. Ekovich
National Managing Director
Vice President Investments
National Golf & Resort Properties Group
 

[Chris DeToro]

keep those larger cups on the par 3 courses

shorten the distance golf balls travel

FWIW...Mr. King has no credibility beyond his own wallet

how would shortening the distance golf balls travel help grow the game? 

Less land for courses = less cost.
Reduction in difference between strong players and weak players gives weak players a better feeling about the game.
Shortening the distance golf balls travel prevents them from reaching bad places off line, keeping wild players more in the game.
Puts more emphasis on hitting the ball, and less on the mundane putting of the ball.
Those are just some of the more obvious ones.

I couldn't disagree more with this premise.  I have seen studies on this and rolling the ball back hurts everybody--shorter hitters hit it shorter and longer hitters still hit it longer so to think that it will have a positive impact on weaker players is misguided.  Weak players want to hit the ball longer--casual players enjoy hitting long tee shots.  We need to better educate beginners and casual players as to how golf can be accessible and get people into the game early and properly with some sort of teaching program at schools.  Yes, golf is hard, it's supposed to be hard and that's part of the challenge.  But it becomes harder without any sort of guidance

[Jeff Taylor]

Why does the game of golf have to grow? Is it important that there are courses out there that you will never play? What is the difference between golf and any other product that lives and dies by supply and demand?

I assume that there will be plenty of great golf courses for me to play for the rest of my life.

[Chris DeToro]

Why does the game of golf have to grow? Is it important that there are courses out there that you will never play? What is the difference between golf and any other product that lives and dies by supply and demand?

I assume that there will be plenty of great golf courses for me to play for the rest of my life.

Why would you assume that?  A product with no growth dies, so lack of growth will prevent you from playing plenty of great golf courses at some point

[Mike Sweeney]

Why does the game of golf have to grow? Is it important that there are courses out there that you will never play? What is the difference between golf and any other product that lives and dies by supply and demand?

I assume that there will be plenty of great golf courses for me to play for the rest of my life.

Why would you assume that?  A product with no growth dies, so lack of growth will prevent you from playing plenty of great golf courses at some point

I am with Jeff on this one. Less is more when it comes to golf, and sports in general. How many "great golf courses" closed during the depths of the recession? The only course that I can think of for me personally is Blue Heron - Smyers at the Jersey Shore which is an overbuilt market.

My son is dying to see Squash be elected as an Olympic sport, but I think to myself that Judo, Wrestling, Squash and other "niche sports" are "right sized" and golf needs to compress.

I don't make my living on golf, it is a leisure expense for me. If I was making money off the industry, I would think differently.