Will we ever see another raw Open?

[John Kavanaugh]

Wow that was green and soft without a blade of grass out of place.  Worst of all were the individual bunker rakers assuring a perfect lie for every participant.  Perfectly hairy drop areas that looked to be trimmed with scissors.  How many times was it droned on about how the guy who hits the ball the highest has a distinct advantage.  Goodbye Irene.

Saint Andrews, raw...na.

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy.  It along with the hairy drop areas seem to be a forced attempt at equality.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I think this was somewhat of a one off.
I think they just wanted the course to be seen differently and certainly play differently from the last Open there.
I understand the dismay at how soft it played, that was the weather.
I played there about a month ago and although green was running fast and the greens were firm, the rain on the week just changed things.
That been said, I liked the fact that Driver had to be used rather than the irons off the tee sufficing for victory, that I dont think the R&A wanted repeated.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy.  It along with the hairy drop areas seem to be a forced attempt at equality.

Surely if they wanted equality the drop areas would have been mowed?

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy.  It along with the hairy drop areas seem to be a forced attempt at equality.

Surely if they wanted equality the drop areas would have been mowed?

It was my understanding that they did not want a player to gain an advantage by hitting a poor shot or by bailing on purpose.  What's next, seat cushions so guys like Sergio don't get bounces out of the stands?

[BCowan]

Muirfield was pretty raw last year, if you go back and look at the coverage - they allowed it to brown out nicely and it was very treacherous. Granted, it was in immaculate shape, but I don't see that as a negative.

Brian, 

   I wasn't at Muirfield for the record, but from a TV viewpoint I was very displeased with last years Open Championship.  With the dry warm weather I felt as though they cut the greens too low on thur and fri (green speeds arm race infesting the UK?), and thus had to soften them for the weekend.  The greens were way too soft for the dry weather they had, i know it was warmer than normal. 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy. 

For some time they've had a greenkeeper with a rake walking with each group; kinda shoots a hole in your argument? Still don't let facts get in the way of a good bit of trolling.  I'm sure when everyone on GCA was ecstatic over the conditions in 2006 you were bitchin' about how ... 'raw' the conditions were?


GCA had it's own man on the rake when Richard Green shot 64, equalling the course record, during the 2007 Open at Carnousite.  Told me it was the easiest days work he'd ever had!

[Tony_Muldoon]

Muirfield was pretty raw last year, if you go back and look at the coverage - they allowed it to brown out nicely and it was very treacherous. Granted, it was in immaculate shape, but I don't see that as a negative.

Brian, 

   I wasn't at Muirfield for the record, but from a TV viewpoint I was very displeased with last years Open Championship.  With the dry warm weather I felt as though they cut the greens too low on thur and fri (green speeds arm race infesting the UK?), and thus had to soften them for the weekend.  The greens were way too soft for the dry weather they had, i know it was warmer than normal. 

I'm with you on that. The fairways played fine but it seemed like they put so much water on the greens Thursday night that produced a few soft spots just in front of a couple of greens and the ball rid not always react predictably.

[Terry Lavin]

The Opens at Hoylake neatly demonstrate the limitations of setting up a golf course for a major championship.  The last time it was played there, the summer was very dry and the golf course was a tawny and firm, leading to a lot of very long shots off the tee and short ones into greens.  Many criticized the look and the setup and many defended it.  They got a great winner in Tiger Woods and Hoylake reaffirmed its spot in the rota.  This year, it was considerably wetter weather-wise leading up to the event and the course was very receptive, leading to more players bombing driver off the tee, without the accompanying fear that the ball would bound into the rough.  The greens were also relatively soft and receptive, but the entire presentation left the golf course pretty defenseless to the best in the game.  They also got a great winner in Rory McIlroy and I'll hazard a guess that Royal Liverpool will survive whatever carping accompanies the low scores.

Bottom line, the most important factor in setup is weather and there's not much that a greenkeeper can do when conditions lean to one extreme or the other.  It seems to me that they did the best they could this past week.  Sometimes, these guys are just going to kill the golf course.  This was such a week.

[ward peyronnin]

Other disturbing things for me included the grandstand playing canyons that significantly compromised a links feel and the creeping hooliganism ( wi fi in the granstands; reckless photography and photographers; permitting hecklers to stalk players) the R&A permitted ; all in the name of maximizing dollars. Kinda street fair feel rather than an Open.

Just a bit Dodgey but great playing made up for it I spose.

[John Kavanaugh]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy. 

For some time they've had a greenkeeper with a rake walking with each group; kinda shoots a hole in your argument? Still don't let facts get in the way of a good bit of trolling.  I'm sure when everyone on GCA was ecstatic over the conditions in 2006 you were bitchin' about how ... 'raw' the conditions were?


GCA had it's own man on the rake when Richard Green shot 64, equalling the course record, during the 2007 Open at Carnousite.  Told me it was the easiest days work he'd ever had!

It's a little early in the thread to start calling names but thanks for the ancient history lesson.  My contention is that the randomness of it all is being lost in what seems to be an intentional and calculated manner.  

[John Kavanaugh]

Other disturbing things for me included the grandstand playing canyons that significantly compromised a links feel and the creeping hooliganism ( wi fi in the granstands; reckless photography and photographers; permitting hecklers to stalk players) the R&A permitted ; all in the name of maximizing dollars. Kinda street fair feel rather than an Open.

Just a bit Dodgey but great playing made up for it I spose.

Great points, how about the electronic scoreboards that even flashed trivia questions during play?

[Ryan Coles]

Other disturbing things for me included the grandstand playing canyons that significantly compromised a links feel and the creeping hooliganism ( wi fi in the granstands; reckless photography and photographers; permitting hecklers to stalk players) the R&A permitted ; all in the name of maximizing dollars. Kinda street fair feel rather than an Open.

Just a bit Dodgey but great playing made up for it I spose.

Wifi hooligans - that's a new one to me. Recklessly and dangerously using up too much data......

How many Open's have you been to?

In what way did the R&A "Permit" hecklers to stalk players? The one or two idiots were removed. What do you suggest they do, CRB check all those who may turn up at the gate?

Thousands of people turned up, stayed and left peacefully - with how many arrests? two?

Open Championship with Grand stand shocker - what do you want, TPC style mounding instead?

[John McCarthy]

Other disturbing things for me included the grandstand playing canyons that significantly compromised a links feel and the creeping hooliganism ( wi fi in the granstands; reckless photography and photographers; permitting hecklers to stalk players) the R&A permitted ; all in the name of maximizing dollars. Kinda street fair feel rather than an Open.

Just a bit Dodgey but great playing made up for it I spose.

I despise the shouters that take off the millisecond a ball is hit.  This pernicious US custom had many followers in Hoylake. 

[Adam Lawrence]

It was a bit rowdier than most Opens. I put that down to the hot weather and the subsequent consumption of beer.

[Ryan Coles]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy. 

For some time they've had a greenkeeper with a rake walking with each group; kinda shoots a hole in your argument? Still don't let facts get in the way of a good bit of trolling.  I'm sure when everyone on GCA was ecstatic over the conditions in 2006 you were bitchin' about how ... 'raw' the conditions were?


GCA had it's own man on the rake when Richard Green shot 64, equalling the course record, during the 2007 Open at Carnousite.  Told me it was the easiest days work he'd ever had!

It's a little early in the thread to start calling names but thanks for the ancient history lesson.  My contention is that the randomness of it all is being lost in what seems to be an intentional and calculated manner.  

The randomness is in the weather. This dictates the scoring. Perfectly calm summer days where the best players in the world shoot no better than 280 over a week are a tricked up nonsense.

Last Open at Hoylake was bone dry. This was one was target golf. How much more random do you want? and would you rather leave this variance to the weather, or some bloke in a soup stained blazer?

[Tony_Muldoon]

Is the practice of having people assigned to each bunker so they are exactly the same for each player a new policy. 

For some time they've had a greenkeeper with a rake walking with each group; kinda shoots a hole in your argument? Still don't let facts get in the way of a good bit of trolling.  I'm sure when everyone on GCA was ecstatic over the conditions in 2006 you were bitchin' about how ... 'raw' the conditions were?


GCA had it's own man on the rake when Richard Green shot 64, equalling the course record, during the 2007 Open at Carnousite.  Told me it was the easiest days work he'd ever had!

It's a little early in the thread to start calling names but thanks for the ancient history lesson.  My contention is that the randomness of it all is being lost in what seems to be an intentional and calculated manner.  

The randomness is in the weather. This dictates the scoring. Perfectly calm summer days where the best players in the world shoot no better than 280 over a week are a tricked up nonsense.

Last Open at Hoylake was bone dry. This was one was target golf. How much more random do you want? and would you rather leave this variance to the weather, or some bloke in a soup stained blazer?

Beat me to it.


Next JakaB will explain the facts about global warming and how it is controlled by the R&A!

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm not buying into the notion that the weather was 100% at fault for the softness.  Am I wrong, does Hoylake have the ability to irrigate?  Is it possible that the powers that be wanted the course greener than last time and then the weather was wetter than predicted?  It seems the fear of failure is the motivator of supers these days which leads to bland conditioning.  Who can blame them now that they are stars and starlets.

[Phil Lipper]

The fact that the winner when it was hard and fast was Tiger and this years winner was Rory tells that both times the setup was probably fair. Its not like the setup created a fluke winner like Ben Curtis.

[John Kavanaugh]

The fact that the winner when it was hard and fast was Tiger and this years winner was Rory tells that both times the setup was probably fair. Its not like the setup created a fluke winner like Ben Curtis.

I don't want fair.  I have been spoon fed for years that the beauty of links golf is its inherent unfairness.

[ward peyronnin]

WSJ today states that heckler followed Rory around for fifteen holes and he finally pointed him out when he intentionally disrupted his downswing AND HE WAS THE LEADER Ryan

Connectivity enhancement brings electronics into the field of play : people holding tablets in players faces etc. and for what? They had giant leaderboards everywhere. Maybe so that the sometime fan can check his facebook page etc rather that stay with the game. You can't tell me this is not a detirioration of the live fan character for which the British Isles were justifiably renowned

[Brent Hutto]

I swear at one point this week I saw a fan poke an iPad or tablet computer of some kind in front of player, presumably in a try to get him to give an autograph on the screen. I guess there must be a App for that!

You've got to be kidding me...

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I'm not buying into the notion that the weather was 100% at fault for the softness.  Am I wrong, does Hoylake have the ability to irrigate?  Is it possible that the powers that be wanted the course greener than last time and then the weather was wetter than predicted?..
I think you have hit the nail right omtop of the proverbial bonce me"ol son.
They didnt want another burn out and a player dominating with irons off the tee, and then got some extra rain.
Cant blame anybody for that though sureely, the total randomness of the bounces last year at Muirfield I think made some at the R&A want a little more "control", personally something I dont mind, but they got bit by too much rain in the few days leading up the event.
As I said a month ago it was perfect, playing firm and realtively fast but also with some green, to me that was perfect, much like Royal Birkdale is 100% of the time.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

It was a bit rowdier than most Opens. I put that down to the hot weather and the subsequent consumption of beer.

The Liverpool buckos were equally badly behaved last time!!

What does one expect from Scousers?

just kidding

[Rich Goodale]

I agree with John.  Despite a worthy winner and some great scores by almost everybody who played on Sunday, it was a "Meh?" tournament, scarily more like the Phoenix Open than THE Open.  The greens were the most receptive I have ever seen for this tournament.  The bunkers were maintained to gather in the middle, in most cases, and thus easy to get out of and easy to get close to the hole (when greenside).  The chipping areas around the greens generally provided lies at the bottom of wee gullies which were simple up and downs for any elite player not infected with the yips.  The greens putted far too slowly.  Wayward shots into the massively increased grandstands were rewarded with drops often closer to the hole and in all cases from a much better place than the errant shot deserved.  Overall very disappointing, alas.