Trump's plans for Turnberry

[Jonathan Mallard]

Major changes at 10, and 11 on the Ailsa including the later possibility of the 9th as a par 3.

Ebert was recommended by the R&A.

http://www.bunkered.co.uk/golf-news/donald-trump-unveils-vision-for-turnberry

Discuss!

I'll start with the 9th. I agree with Tom Doak that it should be re-worked. Not sure that turning it into a 3 is the answer.

[Marty Bonnar]

Martin Ebert interviewed on BBC Scotland news this evening taking about the changes to 10 and 11. I'm trying to find it online, but failing so far.

F.

[Adam Lawrence]

Martin has wanted to make those changes to 10 and 11 for years. I look forward to seeing them.

[Mark Pavy]

I like the proposed changes to 10 and 11.

9 could certainly be improved, if 10T goes left, there may be some options.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Sounds interesting. The current halfway house was already a bit off the 9th / 10th so I can see how using the lighthouse as a halfway house would open up a par 3 playing back toward "the mainland."

This quote is just fantastic: "Subject to planning consent and the approval of the R&A"

I hope the word "irrigation" shows up nowhere in the plans. Then we will know Trump has started the course down the path to becoming a not-a-links.

[Niall C]

Mark

Interestingly, a member of Turnberry and this site was saying just last week that a new irrigation system is exactly what Turnberry needs as what they have at the moment isn't up to scratch. In his view, and perhaps it's not for me to express but I am anyway, Carnoustie has the best water management system of the Scottish links and you certainly wouldn't say that was a lush green course.

All courses, even links, need some basic irrigation system however as the old saying goes its not what you've got but what you do with it.

Niall 

[Brian_Ewen]

[Ally Mcintosh]

I don't know Turnberry. But I assume that's a whole new reshaped putting green / chipping area? Have they actually moved on to the golf course proper yet?

Any news on the complete redevelopment of The Kintyre course as well?

[Eric Smith]

     ^^^^
This is beautiful!

[Michael Felton]

I don't know Turnberry. But I assume that's a whole new reshaped putting green / chipping area? Have they actually moved on to the golf course proper yet?

Any news on the complete redevelopment of The Kintyre course as well?

That is (or at least was) the pitch and putt course there. Have they pulled the plug on that? That would be very sad. The pitch and putt was a lot of fun (I got a hole in one in my one and only game on it).

[Niall C]

Interestingly enough Trump was interviewed for one of the UK golf mags this month and he mentions this (can't recall how he referred to it) however he stated it was designed by Martin Ebert when in fact it is designed by Hawtree. I guess he's got that much going on he's lost track. In the interview he was trying to make out that any planned changes at Turnberry were all at the R&A's bidding which seems like a good way to deflect blame/criticism.

Might be a good idea as I've heard from a member that he's looking to significantly change up to 11 of the holes including setting the 2nd green back into the paddock behind where it is at the moment (unfortunately for him its not his land), set the tee for the 3rd back to the berm behind turning the par 3 into 200 yard plus however again it's not his land plus its a public right of way.

Can't recall what he's planning for the 4th if anything but on the 5th I understand the plan is to move the green back left creating almost a dell like green. Can't recall if there as anything planned for 6th but have a vague recollection that the 7th tees would be moved back even further for the big boys. The work to the next few holes are as advertised.

After that my memory gets a bit hazy but recall one of the other proposed changes was to move the 14th green up onto what will become the old  9th fairway thereby creating a bit more of a dog-leg. Not sure how much of that is his idea and how much MacKenzie & Ebert. I should say none of that is in the magazine article.

One other thing that was in the article was that he was talking about putting the 18th tee on the edge of the beach which would be quite an accomplishment considering, or perhaps he as getting mixed up with another course or indeed perhaps I'm getting mixed up. It's all very confusing.

Niall

[Adrian_Stiff]

Niall, he probably could get the 18th tee back on the beach. 40 years ago the 18th hole was straight, but was a bit too short. 6th might need a wee shift. I actually like the 2nd and 3rd at Turnberry. The 1st is a bit unloved but it's a nice easy get away. I think the plans to re-do 9 and 11 will make it significantly better though even as it is it's my number one on the mainland.

[Doug Siebert]

I don't know Turnberry. But I assume that's a whole new reshaped putting green / chipping area? Have they actually moved on to the golf course proper yet?

Any news on the complete redevelopment of The Kintyre course as well?

That is (or at least was) the pitch and putt course there. Have they pulled the plug on that? That would be very sad. The pitch and putt was a lot of fun (I got a hole in one in my one and only game on it).

Which pitch and putt course? There is, or at least used to be, a 12 holer in the front lawn of the hotel and I'm pretty sure this isn't that unless my brain cells that recall it (other than having played it 3x to reach the only 72 day my dad and I ever played) were killed off my too many pints of Guinness that night.

[Marty Bonnar]

I find myself, if not necessarily always agreeing with Mr T, at least sympathising with the philosophy of change at Turnberry.
While it's a wonderful, glorious, history-filled place to play golf, there are undoubtedly a number of holes which are at best, ho hum.
The Hotel is incredible, if a little 'tired'. I'll bet he'll sort that out easily. The course is 80% there. Just my opinion of course.
I'm also really interested/excited to see what might be made of the Kintyre. There's an opportunity I would have loved!
Just no waterfalls, please...
F.

[mike_beene]

Is it just me, or has Turnberry always seemed to be a little underwhelming when you consider the spectacular site? I have only played it 4 times but the front nine holes between the dunes seem to run together, and the middle of the back 9 almost feels like a field. Is the old runway still there?

[Michael Felton]

I don't know Turnberry. But I assume that's a whole new reshaped putting green / chipping area? Have they actually moved on to the golf course proper yet?

Any news on the complete redevelopment of The Kintyre course as well?

That is (or at least was) the pitch and putt course there. Have they pulled the plug on that? That would be very sad. The pitch and putt was a lot of fun (I got a hole in one in my one and only game on it).

Which pitch and putt course? There is, or at least used to be, a 12 holer in the front lawn of the hotel and I'm pretty sure this isn't that unless my brain cells that recall it (other than having played it 3x to reach the only 72 day my dad and I ever played) were killed off my too many pints of Guinness that night.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that looking down from in front of the hotel by the steps onto the course over the road, with that 12 holer right in front of you? No flags out there or tees, which is what makes me wonder if they have pulled it.

[Jackson C]

I don't know Turnberry. But I assume that's a whole new reshaped putting green / chipping area? Have they actually moved on to the golf course proper yet?

Any news on the complete redevelopment of The Kintyre course as well?

That is (or at least was) the pitch and putt course there. Have they pulled the plug on that? That would be very sad. The pitch and putt was a lot of fun (I got a hole in one in my one and only game on it).

Which pitch and putt course? There is, or at least used to be, a 12 holer in the front lawn of the hotel and I'm pretty sure this isn't that unless my brain cells that recall it (other than having played it 3x to reach the only 72 day my dad and I ever played) were killed off my too many pints of Guinness that night.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that looking down from in front of the hotel by the steps onto the course over the road, with that 12 holer right in front of you? No flags out there or tees, which is what makes me wonder if they have pulled it.

It is looking down from the hotel.
Heard the trees were to be removed and it seem so.
Appears from the photos that pitch and put was transformed into a uniform putting area.

[Brian_Ewen]

Under the impression its still going to be a Pitch & Putt, but a "much improved one"

[Ally Mcintosh]

Under the impression its still going to be a Pitch & Putt, but a "much improved one"

That's what it looks like to me, given the bunker placements. I googled for previous images to see what it looked like before. Seemed very non-indigenous to the land with the vegetation. This seems to be a very suitable improvement.

[Thomas Dai]

Can't helping but wonder about the airstrip and what use Mr Trump will make of it in the long term.
atb

[Jud_T]

So a Top 20 Course in the world needs 3 holes torn up?.  Either it's significantly overrated currently, or this is ill advised (I'm leaning towards the former).  Hell, they don't even have Haggis on the menu anymore.  Good news for The Traveling Ugly American- the photo op will be unblemished.  

[Doug Siebert]

I don't know Turnberry. But I assume that's a whole new reshaped putting green / chipping area? Have they actually moved on to the golf course proper yet?

Any news on the complete redevelopment of The Kintyre course as well?

That is (or at least was) the pitch and putt course there. Have they pulled the plug on that? That would be very sad. The pitch and putt was a lot of fun (I got a hole in one in my one and only game on it).

Which pitch and putt course? There is, or at least used to be, a 12 holer in the front lawn of the hotel and I'm pretty sure this isn't that unless my brain cells that recall it (other than having played it 3x to reach the only 72 day my dad and I ever played) were killed off my too many pints of Guinness that night.

Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't that looking down from in front of the hotel by the steps onto the course over the road, with that 12 holer right in front of you? No flags out there or tees, which is what makes me wonder if they have pulled it.

It is looking down from the hotel.
Heard the trees were to be removed and it seem so.
Appears from the photos that pitch and put was transformed into a uniform putting area.

Ah, OK! I remembered there were trees so it just didn't look right at all. Guess I didn't noticed the steps at the bottom of the picture and realize where it was taken from. I don't recall the land being that 'rumpled' but with the trees it probably was less noticeable.

[Niall C]

Niall, he probably could get the 18th tee back on the beach. 40 years ago the 18th hole was straight, but was a bit too short. 6th might need a wee shift. I actually like the 2nd and 3rd at Turnberry. The 1st is a bit unloved but it's a nice easy get away. I think the plans to re-do 9 and 11 will make it significantly better though even as it is it's my number one on the mainland.

Adrian

My point was, by going back to the beach, you are going to be playing over the existing beach side holes. I don't have a strong enough mental picture in my head to say for certain but I think the holes would be the 5th and 6th. Something's got to give, no ?

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Niall,

there would be room behind the 5th green if memory serves me right but I am not sure this would improve the hole at all.

Jon

[Brian_Ewen]