[Matt MacIver]

I didn't really know what to expect at Bethpage Black (except #4) but was overwhelmed by the first five holes (though #3 was meh; a connector?).  There are very few holes on the back that rival the front.

[Wade Whitehead]

I didn't really know what to expect at Bethpage Black (except #4) but was overwhelmed by the first five holes (though #3 was meh; a connector?).  There are very few holes on the back that rival the front.

And I would think the letdown of #18 impacts anyone's assessment of the course.  Just guessing, since I haven't played the Black.

So, the next question would be: On a "Great Front, Okay Back" layout, wouldn't the course be better if the nines were simply reversed (assuming the routing so permits)?

WW

[Paul Gray]

Sean,

You're right. Just got carried away thinking about the contrasts.

[Mike_Trenham]

Ballyhack sort of fits this bill for me.  As I find the land for the front nine so special that the back nine takes a back seat.

[Niall C]

Frank

What to do about the 17th/18th at Machrihanish ? Any ideas ? Re-routing perhaps with a shift of the clubhouse ?

Niall

Frank and I discussed that a while ago - we both think the answer is a new par three ninth hole, the tee left of the current eighth green and the green near the sea and current ninth tee. Then combine 17 and 18 into a par five to finish. The ground isn't exciting but with clever design you ought to be able to come up with something good.

Adam

After I posted I had a think about it myself and have come up with another solution which I hopefully will turn into a new thread provided I can master the posting of images.

Niall

[Carl Rogers]

Ballyhack sort of fits this bill for me.  As I find the land for the front nine so special that the back nine takes a back seat.

Not my perception.  I liked the back just as well though it is over more difficult terrain.  However:
-The approach shot at 14 is too severe for a short hitter like myself with a longer club in hand.
-The 15th is a bit quirky with the short porch. 
-The 17th is a more straight forward connector short par 3.

The Ballyhack 18th green is unbelieveably unforgettable and a wonderful conclusion to the round.

The course which came to mind for me concerning this thread is Royal New Kent.  Front 9 is magnificient. The routing breaks down after 11.  The 11th green is hopelessly, even for Strantz, over the top.  17 & 18 belong on another course.

[Paul Carey]

Jenifer Lopez?

Royal Aberdeen has always had this reputation, but I rather ebjoyed the back, and felt many of the holes on the front, while outstanding holes on their own, a bit repetitive in the two different crosswinds I played it in the two times I was there.
Sadly I hear from a very good player next door Murcar has been lost in a sea of narrowed fairways and rough, as the pictures of RA seem to indicate in "preparation" for the Scottish Open.
The two gents I played with Tuesday are playing in that this week and will be interested  in hearing their thoughts

Is it really a valid and better test of driving if no one hits driver?

I played Aberdeen  prior to the Walker Cup the course setup was miserable.  Fairways were extremely narrow and a yard off the fairway was a potential lost ball.   It was very difficult to enjoy the golf course in those "tournament" conditions.

[Roger Wolfe]

Diamond Creek is the epitome of this thread.  "Great" and "ok" need to be replaced with "breathtaking" and "forgettable"

[Andy Troeger]

Diamond Creek is the epitome of this thread.  "Great" and "ok" need to be replaced with "breathtaking" and "forgettable"

Really? I think the 15th is the best hole on the course. #17 isn't necessarily great architecture, but its not forgettable. I do agree that the front is better than the back and #8/9 would be a great finishing pair, but I don't think its that drastic.

Also don't think I'd include Ballyhack here. If pressed, I would still say the front is the better nine, but the back is still pretty solid. I like the short #17 coming after what is likely the hardest hole on the course.

First one that comes to mind for me is Lancaster. Front nine is awesome, back nine a bit less original. I'll second Royal New Kent, although I really like #17. The holes going through the neighborhood lose a lot of charm. I'm not sure the front is as "great" as it may have been originally.

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