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Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great Front; Okay Back
« on: July 02, 2014, 03:52:57 PM »
On another thread Royal Aberdeen is said to have [one of] the best front nines in golf.

This must mean that the back nine underachieves or just isn't as good.

I found the same to be true of the Country Club of Salisbury.  The front nine was subilme...Ross at his best...while the back nine just didn't measure up.

What other courses blow you away for the first nine holes, then disappoint somehow on the back?

WW

Greg Taylor

Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 03:59:10 PM »
Royal Aberdeen just never clicked for me, #2, 8 and 9 aside.

Royal County Down has an incredible front, and only a great back... 14 and 17 let it down.

Greg

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2014, 04:00:28 PM »
WW - I think Iron Valley (PB Dye) fits this bill perfectly.  Really nice parkland course and then you hit the back 9, which I think was built on mining residue.   

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2014, 04:09:30 PM »
Granville GC sort of fits the bill.  The front nine is a Ross gem, but the back nine is an abomination thanks to four new holes that were built to replace the originals that were bulldozed to make room for a neighborhood housing development.

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2014, 09:20:53 PM »
Murphy Creek

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2014, 01:39:19 AM »
Machrihanish is a popular choice in this category as well.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2014, 06:29:43 AM »
Jenifer Lopez? ;)

Royal Aberdeen has always had this reputation, but I rather ebjoyed the back, and felt many of the holes on the front, while outstanding holes on their own, a bit repetitive in the two different crosswinds I played it in the two times I was there.
Sadly I hear from a very good player next door Murcar has been lost in a sea of narrowed fairways and rough, as the pictures of RA seem to indicate in "preparation" for the Scottish Open. ::) ::)
The two gents I played with Tuesday are playing in that this week and will be interested  in hearing their thoughts

Is it really a valid and better test of driving if no one hits driver?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 06:41:00 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2014, 06:39:36 AM »
Highlands of Elgin.  Different Archies and different quality of land. 
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2014, 06:45:25 AM »
Machrihanish is a popular choice in this category as well.

Although the landscape and views on the back nine are visually less exciting, it is comprised of great holes (except for 17 and 18)

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 08:21:55 AM »
Machrihanish is a popular choice in this category as well.

Although the landscape and views on the back nine are visually less exciting, it is comprised of great holes (except for 17 and 18)

I love Machrihanish, but I'm not as high on several of those holes as you are.  The only holes on the back nine I'd call "great" are the 12th and maybe the 16th.  Each and every hole on the front nine is better than the others after the turn.

Also, I know several people who rather like the back nine at Royal Aberdeen -- Ran included -- but I walked it last year and I was not swayed.  Some of the fairways were ridiculously narrow.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2014, 01:33:46 PM »
Frank

What to do about the 17th/18th at Machrihanish ? Any ideas ? Re-routing perhaps with a shift of the clubhouse ?

Tom

When you say the homeward half at RA was narrow, presumably you are referring to the set up in terms of mowing, yes ? That aside is there anything there to suggest that with a bit of judicious pruning and widening that the back nine might also shine ? (I should say, I've never seen the course other from the first tee and looking over the fence from Murcar)

Niall

Peter Pallotta

Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2014, 01:34:26 PM »
I have a theory that one of the reasons most films are not very good is because the wirter starts from the beginning, i.e. because he/she creates a dramatic conceit/situation that ensures an engaging and fast moving opening act or two, but that proves unable to sustain an entire narrative or solid third act. Now, this theory shouldn't apply to golf courses, since the puzzle that is a routing comes together in a much different way; the "first" hole might've been the last one found, and the "last" one might've once been planned as the 6th or 9th or 14th. And yet, I don't remember many threads around here that mention courses with average opening 9s and terrific closing ones. Sure, maybe that's because in the end they just 'flip the nines' because they want the strong 9 first. and yet I can't quite figure out why this would be necessary in the first place. of course, maybe my theory has no validity whatsoever.
Peter

Mike Viscusi

Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2014, 02:04:24 PM »
If half of your land is great and the other half is mediocre at best, what is the preferred layout? One great 9 on great land and one mediocre 9 on the mediocre land?  Or split up the land over each 9, in effect creating two solid but not spectacular 9's?

Jon McSweeny

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2014, 02:08:50 PM »
I really enjoyed the entire course, but isn't "Great Front, Okay Back" the classic Spyglass complaint?

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2014, 02:32:57 PM »
It has been more than 20 years since I played it, but I seem to remember having the same reaction to Cruden Bay. Was I wrong or is my memory just bad? I also played Royal Aberdeen the following day, I am quite sure that I had the same reaction there.
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2014, 02:39:51 PM »
I really enjoyed the entire course, but isn't "Great Front, Okay Back" the classic Spyglass complaint?

More like "Great First Five, OK Next 13"

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2014, 03:03:53 PM »
Machrihanish is a popular choice in this category as well.

Although the landscape and views on the back nine are visually less exciting, it is comprised of great holes (except for 17 and 18)

I love Machrihanish, but I'm not as high on several of those holes as you are.  The only holes on the back nine I'd call "great" are the 12th and maybe the 16th.  Each and every hole on the front nine is better than the others after the turn.

Also, I know several people who rather like the back nine at Royal Aberdeen -- Ran included -- but I walked it last year and I was not swayed.  Some of the fairways were ridiculously narrow.



To me, the thing that sets Royal Aberdeen a few notches higher is the uniqueness of each of it's green complexes. 18 of them - all different.

Kris Spence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2014, 04:08:09 PM »
Rolling Rock CC, Ligonier PA. Great Ross outward nine with a very interesting set of greens natural setting, I replayed the front after 3 of the inward holes.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2014, 04:16:33 PM »
For me, Royal Aberdeen gets an unfair rap for quality of nines.  The front is not as good as folks suggest and the back is nowhere near as bad as folks suggest. 

Machrihanish has a huge disaparity between 9s. 

I will go with St Enodoc having a great front 9 and a lesser back 9.

Huntercombe may fit this bill as well. 

Renaissance too has a great front 9 and a lesser back 9. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2014, 04:43:46 PM »
RCD enough said :)

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2014, 04:44:44 PM »
Frank

What to do about the 17th/18th at Machrihanish ? Any ideas ? Re-routing perhaps with a shift of the clubhouse ?

Niall

Frank and I discussed that a while ago - we both think the answer is a new par three ninth hole, the tee left of the current eighth green and the green near the sea and current ninth tee. Then combine 17 and 18 into a par five to finish. The ground isn't exciting but with clever design you ought to be able to come up with something good.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

billb

Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2014, 04:49:00 PM »
The Island

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2014, 05:07:04 PM »
It seems to be a popular criticism of Hindhead but I don't agree. Certainly the front nine is more striking but the back nine has a certain classiness about it, in my opinion.

Camberley Heath, on the other hand, although I particularly like the 18th, certainly curtails as you progress into the back nine.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2014, 05:44:25 PM »
Paul

But you couldn't say tht any nine of Hindhead or Camberley Heath is great, or maybe you could  8)

Ciao
« Last Edit: July 04, 2014, 02:22:55 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Great Front; Okay Back
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2014, 05:58:01 PM »
I ask the question because I suspect most architects (like filmmakers) seek the most memorable ending possible.

WW