So much ignorance about Pinehurst conditions

[Eric Strulowitz]

I must have heard it over ten times at my club.  About the horrible conditions at the US open, how the course looked like a goat track, how they could not be bothered watering the course, how ugly it was.  How the course is no longer on the bucket list.

These comments I have also noticed across some other golf discussion groups.

I have always said jokingly that if you think there is any hope for mankind, than spend a day with some golfers.  Now of course this is a generalization, and probably applies less to this group perhaps than the average golfer at large, but this mentality is one of the reasons the game is in decline.  Green does not define a great golf club.  Augusta National, perhaps the ultimate in green and perfection, is a false standard.  Green for the sake of it often  means soft conditions and a lot of overhead to maintain that green.  There is a lot more to a golf course than the color of the fairways.

The game is enhanced when I can get some good roll, and roll a ball up to the green.  That often means brown or a lack of pure green.  Too many courses these days seem  overwatered, and it is frustrating to see a great drive just take one bounce or two and die.  it is downright silly to walk on a course after no days of rain and hear a squish noise as you walk the fairways.   Golf is as much a ground as an aerial game, and lush green conditions can take this away.

And I always hear golfers complaining about the cost of golf.  Well, if green is your goal, you are going to have to pay for it.  Yes, golf is expensive in places like Cabo, Phoenix, Palm Springs,  do you expect it to be cheap when millions of gallons of water are needed to keep them green?  Green is pleasing to the eye, but fake and contrived.  If this is the standard we apply to a course, just one of many reasons why this game is in decline, and last year 440,000 less rounds played.  There is no pleasing a lot of these folks.

I have played #2, yes it is costly and perhaps even real overpriced, but there is no taking away that this is one fun course, and the lack of deep lush green does not take away from it one bit.

[Ryan Coles]

Could it be that due to the severe repetitive greens and the lack of running shots into them that perhaps Pinehurst isn't the right poster boy?

[John Kavanaugh]

The course is set up at 6150 yds, what a waste of brown. Something doesn't add up.

[Daryl David]

Makes you wonder. If these comments represent the majority of golfers likely to travel, will PH suffer a loss of business in the next few years?  Perhaps the resort will still see normal traffic, but #2 will fall off in rounds.  One can hope that happens so they will lower the up charge for playing #2!  

[Paul Gray]

I keep saying it, but what really did any one expect?

Humans are creates of habit. Change scares the average person. Anyone here ever been into a failing business and tried to tell them that their status quo isn't working? The logical response would be to embrace the new with open arms. It never is.

These things take time. Once something is set in peoples minds as 'normal,' changing it is a gradual process, be it business, music, food trends or golf courses.

[BCowan]

''And I always hear golfers complaining about the cost of golf.  Well, if green is your goal, you are going to have to pay for it.  Yes, golf is expensive in places like Cabo, Phoenix, Palm Springs,  do you expect it to be cheap when millions of gallons of water are needed to keep them green?  Green is pleasing to the eye, but fake and contrived.  If this is the standard we apply to a course, just one of many reasons why this game is in decline, and last year 440,000 less rounds played.  There is no pleasing a lot of these folks.''

   The game is in decline because it was artificially propped up like housing prices.  Water is an issue in 4-6 states.  Watering isn't the reason the game is in decline, if you buy that there was ever real golfers during the incline.  Look at chouses as the sinking ship.   

[Brent Hutto]

Let's apply the Occam's Razor principle here...

Perhaps golfers by and large just plain old prefer green grass to brown grass. Couldn't it just possibly be as simple as that?

[John Kavanaugh]

Green and firm is 100% possible and sustainable.

[Paul Gray]

Let's apply the Occam's Razor principle here...

Perhaps golfers by and large just plain old prefer green grass to brown grass. Couldn't it just possibly be as simple as that?

Well yes, except, as every child knows, you can't dislike something until you've given it a fair try. My dear old nan , bless her, claimed to only like English food which, for a woman that never left the shores of Britain, was an amazing statement of ignorance.

[Jason Thurman]

Let's apply the Occam's Razor principle here...

Perhaps golfers by and large just plain old prefer green grass to brown grass. Couldn't it just possibly be as simple as that?

Replace the word "golfers" with "humans" and I think you've got it.

[BCowan]

Let's apply the Occam's Razor principle here...

Perhaps golfers by and large just plain old prefer green grass to brown grass. Couldn't it just possibly be as simple as that?

Add US before golfers and you are correct.  I don't think the Aussie's and Scots would agree. 

[Eric Strulowitz]

''And I always hear golfers complaining about the cost of golf.  Well, if green is your goal, you are going to have to pay for it.  Yes, golf is expensive in places like Cabo, Phoenix, Palm Springs,  do you expect it to be cheap when millions of gallons of water are needed to keep them green?  Green is pleasing to the eye, but fake and contrived.  If this is the standard we apply to a course, just one of many reasons why this game is in decline, and last year 440,000 less rounds played.  There is no pleasing a lot of these folks.''

   The game is in decline because it was artificially propped up like housing prices.  Water is an issue in 4-6 states.  Watering isn't the reason the game is in decline, if you buy that there was ever real golfers during the incline.  Look at chouses as the sinking ship.   

I never said watering was THE reason the game was in decline, it is a minor factor, one of many.

Many golfers place a high premium on pristine, green conditions.  A course that does not fit a certain perception is automatically written off as a "goat track".  That turns players away from potentially great venues, and raises the cost for other courses, that feel they will loose play if their course is perceived as "rough around the edges".  Courses are in competition, and courses that are more green, will have a competitive advantage, because many a consumer equates the degree of greenness with the experience.

Personally, I like "rough around the edges".  The playing field is nature.  When you over sculpture a golf course, and seek aesthetics and deep green just for the sake of it , you are talking about high costs to start and high costs to maintain.  And then you hear complaints about high green fees.   And the minute there are bare spots or brown on the course, you here all these comments, like "they are letting the place go" or " this place is becoming a goat track" or whatever.  It is beyond silly.

[Brent Hutto]

There are many golfers in Scotland not playing links courses and in Australia not playing Sandbelt courses.

I've met golfers from England and Scotland who fly to Myrtle Beach to play on wall-to-wall emerald green courses, while riding in carts, and they have all been as happy as a pig in mud with that green grass.

This forum is all about trying to insist that the preferences of a tiny minority of golfers are superior to those of the rest of those who play the game. This is simply a continuation of that.

[BCowan]

Eric,

   I agree, but I don't think F&F is good or the right fit for a JN course.  They aren't designed in my opinion to reward F&F conditions. It is sad that people don't understand mostly because they haven't played it or experienced it.  It is hard to do that when the rate is $500 for a round, to play a course set up you are not sure about (avg golfer).  I don't see any play going down there, if it hosts a major in recent years play will be high.  

[Jason Thurman]

I just turned the women's final round on. You don't have to be a public course cartballing mouthbreather to see that the fairway turf looks horrendous. There has to be a better way to showcase firm and fast than playing a national championship on ten yard wide fairways surrounded by dirt.

[BCowan]

There are many golfers in Scotland not playing links courses and in Australia not playing Sandbelt courses.

I've met golfers from England and Scotland who fly to Myrtle Beach to play on wall-to-wall emerald green courses, while riding in carts, and they have all been as happy as a pig in mud with that green grass.

This forum is all about trying to insist that the preferences of a tiny minority of golfers are superior to those of the rest of those who play the game. This is simply a continuation of that.

   It is sad how cynical you are.  I have Christmas dinner in Florida with Scots and Englishmen.  They take buggies over here and walk over there.  They come over here for the weather!!  Have you asked them if they understand Brown, do they respond course looks like a goat ranch when they see photos of #2?  Please answer that honestly.  You are a member of a CC Brent, I am not.  You try and play the ''outsider'' role, but i can see right through it!  When Arch. warrants brown, it is superior.  I used to vaca in Myrtle Beach, been there done that!  

[Brent Hutto]

I belong to a country club. I like green grass. How does that make me cynical?

More to the point, I spend more than the cost of my country-club dues most years to go to England and play golf on nice, brown links/heathland/whatever courses. My preferences are as minority as the next GCA member but I perfectly understand the appeal of day in day out play on green grass parkland courses.

[Gary Slatter]

Makes you wonder. If these comments represent the majority of golfers likely to travel, will PH suffer a loss of business in the next few years?  Perhaps the resort will still see normal traffic, but #2 will fall off in rounds.  One can hope that happens so they will lower the up charge for playing #2!  

I think the comments summarize what I've been hearing.  The first time that I played Pebble back in the 1970s it played similar to Pinehurst as it is now, and I remember wondering what all the hype was about Pebble.  Millions later Pebble is wall to wall great.
Pinehurst looks like a $50.00 fee course, don't think they can afford to keep it like it is today, maybe for two,years.

[John Kavanaugh]

When are you guys going to wake up and realize that when we play Pinehurst it will be green?  This is a tournament set up. If left like this, dead turns to mud.

[BCowan]

I belong to a country club. I like green grass. How does that make me cynical?

   Your cynical to anyone who thinks that brown is superior to green.  This site isn't suppose to cater to the lowest common denominator.  Are you going to argue that many of the great ''Golden Age Archies'' would shake their heads if they saw how soft the typical US course plays?  If someone likes brown, you insinuate them to be ''fringe'' or ''elitist''.  This isn't Green Club Atlas!

[BHoover]

I don't think the conditions look terrible. If anything, I'd be more inclined to play #2 now than under ordinary conditions.

I wonder whether Old Tom would approve?

[BCowan]

Hot dog Old tom!  Go Play!!   

Hoover, me too. 

[BHoover]

Hot dog Old tom!  Go Play!!   

Hoover, me too. 

I love the use of Old Tom in those commercials, mostly because I'm sure it bothers MHM so much. I keep waiting for one with Old Tom in a cart.

If you don't like the conditions at Pinehurst, and you don't have to, there are plenty of other courses to play. What's the big deal?

[Brent Hutto]

As I've said in other threads, I like baked out dormant Bermuda surfaces. Helps my lack of driving distance, clean lies to hit the ball from and the greens at #2 seem like they'd be a hoot to play.

I just don't think that 90% of golfers share my preferences. And I don't think those preferences make me a genius or the other 90% idiots.

[JMEvensky]

I just don't think that 90% of golfers share my preferences. And I don't think those preferences make me a fucking genius or the other 90% idiots.

The only part I'd argue with is your 90% figure-- I think it's too low.