Rank Trump's courses

[Nigel Islam]

I have never played any of the Donald's courses. In fact, other than Doral and Turnberry, I don't know much about any if them. I am up for any format, I just want a quick lesson without having to spend any time researching

[Mike Sweeney]

I have only played Trump Philly and Trump Hudson Valley, pre-Trump. In the 10 round test of life, 2 for Philly, 8 for Hudson Valley.

Let's be honest, he is a genius. We all think he sucks, and we all post about him   Somehow I don't think he is going to send me one of those "Rater Wine Gifts" for my review above.

However, I am also much smarter than Trump, I married my second and third wife first which saved me a couple of bucks.

PS. Oops played Doral years ago, but can't really compare.

[Mac Plumart]

So far I've only played one...Bedminster New.

It was a pretty nice piece of property and a really nice club. The course was solid, but was a bit of a miss considering the potential that I saw.

Edit...oh yeah, played Doral a few years ago. Need to get back.

[Mark Saltzman]

Doral
West palm
LA

[Steve Lapper]

Balmedie
Turnberry
Bedminster Old
Doral
Doonbeg
Ferry Point
.
.
.
Philly
Bedminster New
Lowes Island
Jupiter
West Palm
LA
Briarcliff
Colts Neck

[Nigel Islam]

I have only played Trump Philly and Trump Hudson Valley, pre-Trump. In the 10 round test of life, 2 for Philly, 8 for Hudson Valley.

Let's be honest, he is a genius. We all think he sucks, and we all post about him   Somehow I don't think he is going to send me one of those "Rater Wine Gifts" for my review above.

However, I am also much smarter than Trump, I married my second and third wife first which saved me a couple of bucks.

I think for me it is just a touch frustrating because his over the top style (and prices)  is not something that appeals to me in golf. It easy to just say "I have no interest in playing that course," but now that he is acquiring courses such as Turnberry, he definitely is becoming quite relevant. I also find the courses names to be quite confusing. At least the the TPC courses all have the city name after them.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Nigel,

"Price" has nothing to do with it.

Trump has been able to fill his courses with golfers willing to pay whatever "price" he determines.

So, let's stick to the architecture.

I have to respect Steve Lapper's view as he's probably played more Trump courses than anyone else.

[Keith Phillips]

I've only played the Ritz / Trump Jupiter, though my rounds predated his ownership - I thought it was very, very good - did they make changes there?

[cary lichtenstein]

I have only played Trump Philly and Trump Hudson Valley, pre-Trump. In the 10 round test of life, 2 for Philly, 8 for Hudson Valley.

Let's be honest, he is a genius. We all think he sucks, and we all post about him   Somehow I don't think he is going to send me one of those "Rater Wine Gifts" for my review above.

However, I am also much smarter than Trump, I married my second and third wife first which saved me a couple of bucks.

PS. Oops played Doral years ago, but can't really compare.

Mike

Me too, we r both way smarter than that Billionaire

[Nigel Islam]

Nigel,

"Price" has nothing to do with it.

Trump has been able to fill his courses with golfers willing to pay whatever "price" he determines.

So, let's stick to the architecture.

I have to respect Steve Lapper's view as he's probably played more Trump courses than anyone else.

Pat, I said that was outside my own personal preferences. Honestly, I have probably paid more than I should for certain rounds in my life too, so I should have just omitted that part. 

[Jeff Schley]

I was going to start a new thread, but figured there was this discussion previously.  A friend of a friend of mine won a charity auction that featured a foursome of golf at all the trump properties in the USA 2 years ago and was able to extend it out and just finished his rounds.  My friend called me for xmas and we talked golf and told me his buddy who won the charity auction just finished up the winter.  I asked what were his impressions and ranking?  His buddy is not that knowledgeable about architecture, but enjoys golfing private tracks.

He said a couple things:1. In general, very nice clubhouses and particularly entrances are grand.2. Staff is friendly, but in a corporate type of way.3. He met members at some of the private clubs and they were using the clubs for business, not pure golf was his impression.4. Wonderful conditions of the private clubs in particular.5. HATED Trump LA as it was way too tight and difficult (he is a 19 handicap)

I only know his top 5 which were:
1. Bedminster Old
2. Washington DC
3. Doral

4. Ferry Point
5. West Palm Beach

I have no idea how his courses and memberships are doing, although I would predict not well as he is a polarizing figure if there ever was one. I'm going to play the Trump Dubai this winter as I haven't played it yet and heard it was very nice.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I've only played TN South Jersey ( Philadelphia)     It's not #1 in NJ even though it's near Pine Valley but the Old& New @ Bedminster are in the Top 20 in NJ according to the GD raters:


https://www.golfdigest.com/story/new-jersey-best-in-state-rankings




As noted above, Steve Lapper's list must be given great weight IMO.

[Nick Ribeiro]

I have played:


All the courses at Doral, Bedminster Old & New, Westchester, Colts Neck, Ferry Point, Hudson Valley, and Philly. I have not played Jupiter, West Palm, Charlotte, LA or any of the courses over seas. I hope to play Jupiter and West Palm next month.


I think Steves list has some accuracy, however I think all the courses are way under rated as it pertains to better golfers. All the clubs have perfect course conditions and all offer championship play. Most I can think of off the top of my head are 150+ slope from championship tees. The clubs naturally do well attracting better golfers, especially in areas like the North East where the better golfers are looking for a challenge classics can no longer offer.


Pricing is like anything else in the world, you get what you pay for. All the clubs offer exceptional amenities and service, they run a hospitality model and do it well. I assume many of the high end services and strategies come from the hotel side. Lodging at all the clubs feels like a very high end hotel.


Many of the members do use the clubs for business use, but still great camaraderie among the membership. Most of my time on Trump properties has been spent at Westchester, Colts Neck, and Bedminster. All really great members and a bunch of great golfers.

[Jud_T]

Only played Turnberry pre-Trump. Unlikely to play the others anytime soon as I’d rather have a root canal than spend a nickel in any business a Trump has an interest in.  As for Turnberry, it’s hard to be very critical as I played it in a storm with 60 mph gusts.  Seems like there’d be some Instagrammable moments in good weather.  Also seems like I’d choose Prestwick down the street almost every time.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Only played Turnberry pre-Trump. Unlikely to play the others anytime soon as I’d rather have a root canal than spend a nickle in any business a Trump has an interest in.  As for Turnberry, it’s hard to be very critical as I played it in a storm with 60 mph gusts.  Seems like there’d be some Instagrammable moments in good weather.  Also seems like I’d choose Prestwick down the street almost every time.

+1


I do look forward to playing Turnberry (again) under new ownership in about 3-4 years. (Maybe sooner...;-)


My (heavily biased) prediction calls for the liquidation of most Trump properties as a confluence of: 1. Economic headwinds 2. Overall continuation of current golf trends 3. Anti-Trump bias (more than 60% of the population) and 4. Trump "issues" post-January 21, 2021 combine to create an untenable situation for the family office called the Trump Organization.


He will somehow hold on to Bedminster and one course in Florida.
But, if the revenue trends continue at his resorts and condos (like Chicago), we will see distressed sales to opportunistic new investors.


So, this thread is moot...;-)
Except it was great to read something by Pat Mucci again...

[John Foley]

Used to play Trumps' Hudson Valley course when it was called Branton Woods - it was very solid and the best public course north of NYC. Not been since it was changed over.


Ferry Point is very good for what it is, totally manufactured faux-links. It's solid though a bit pricey. Great practice faciulity if you don't have time for a round also.

[Tim Gavrich]

The Doonbeg course was pretty spectacular but I was put off somewhat by the fact that a few of the holes didn't work in the typically firm and fast conditions of a links. The severely elevated greens on holes like 8 and 11 don't really accept a running shot because of how elevated they are, and flying a ball onto them is likely a non-starter because the ball will just bounce way long unless you're dead into the wind, I suppose. Downwind, forget it.

[Nick Ribeiro]

I do look forward to playing Turnberry (again) under new ownership in about 3-4 years. (Maybe sooner...;-)


My (heavily biased) prediction calls for the liquidation of most Trump properties as a confluence of: 1. Economic headwinds 2. Overall continuation of current golf trends 3. Anti-Trump bias (more than 60% of the population) and 4. Trump "issues" post-January 21, 2021 combine to create an untenable situation for the family office called the Trump Organization.

Pipedream... If you do basic math you could argue Trump only profits a few mil annually off of his private clubs which does not come anywhere close to the 75 mil (could be more) Doral brings in annually alone. Trump offers more than golf, he offers a lifestyle that people of a certain caliber of wealth want to be a part of. The clubs also have a purpose of branding in specific areas where his membes/customers also happen to frequent his hotels when traveling. If anything Trump Golf will continue to expand. It will be interesting to see what iconic properties come next.


I can't imagine how angry a Trump hater has to be after generations of Trump success, not to mention an easy re election in 2020. To refrain from further pain we should discuss the actual courses, how much space they have to push tees out x amount more yards, the 2022 pga championship at Bedminster, and how these properties offer courses that are ahead of the curve and already offer a great challenge with modern technology in equipment... 

[corey miller]

I trust Steve Lapper on all things Trump.   


Interested in Nick’s view of just how appealing some of the properties are to the high level golfer? Does it really matter if it is a slope of 140 or 150?


Have only played Briarcliff which is too difficult for mere mortals, and with the other challenging local courses I have. Hard time believing it is even appealing to the scratch player.


In the end, regardless of what Golf Digest might think, aren’t we quibbling between a Doak 4 or 5?

[Steve Lapper]

My Updated List (in order of rank):


1) Turnberry Alisa....really very, very good and Martin Ebert did a wonderful job


2) Balmedie (Aberdeen)...Stunning dunes, but unforgiving and difficult when windy.


3) Doonbeg ....again vastly improved by Martin Hawtree.


4) Bedminster Old...sturdy Fazio parkland


5) Turnberry (King Robert Bruce)...much improved and worthy.


6) Ferry Point....very fun faux links design by John Sanford.


7) Doral Blue Gil's ace renovation of this Wilson classic, but brutal when wind is up.


  Jupiter (post JN work)...truly fun and interesting.


9) Bedminster New... faux links. Likely to see more of the 2022 PGA action.


10) Philadelphia.....faux Pine Valley. Tough to score on.


11) Toss-up: West Palm/Lowes Island...Rivers, lakes and local prisons.. any ??


12) LA.....better panoramic views than architecture.


13) Colts Neck....McMansion Arena...yet some very decent holes.


14) Hudson Valley...quite pleasant.


15) Briarcliff.....no comment.


I've not played Charlotte or Dubai....and don't imagine I will anytime soon.


For good reason, I won't comment on the speculative commentary found here, but would note of all so far, I agree with Mike Sweeney re: smart enough to marry his 2nd and 3rd wife first.....and Corey Miller's general observations. Cheers!

[Tom_Doak]

Steve:  it's Martin Ebert who worked on Turnberry, not Hawtree.


I haven't seen those changes, but there has never been a day when Balmedie was superior to Turnberry, except in the mind of a man who owned one but not the other yet.

[Jeff Loh]

Funny what qualifies for "success" these days.
i suppose the standards have been lowered.

[Nick Ribeiro]

I trust Steve Lapper on all things Trump.   


Interested in Nick’s view of just how appealing some of the properties are to the high level golfer? Does it really matter if it is a slope of 140 or 150?


Have only played Briarcliff which is too difficult for mere mortals, and with the other challenging local courses I have. Hard time believing it is even appealing to the scratch player.


In the end, regardless of what Golf Digest might think, aren’t we quibbling between a Doak 4 or 5?

Corey,
I think scratch golfers love the challenge which gets harder to find as the next generation has been fortunate enough to utilize video technology and develop essentially perfect swings. They also are growing up with the latest in club technology which allows these high school kids to crush the ball, by college many are hitting the ball over 300 yards. I am not a scratch golfer, I maintain a handicap that floats between 6-8. With that said I have played Bedminster Old from the tips, 7721 yards and 151 slope. It's hard, really hard! Especially for an 8 handicap. It was a different experience as I have never played longer before, but the younger guys and better players dont seem phased.


I believe 8,000+ yard courses are in our near future, if there is any concrete evidence supporting otherwise I'd be thrilled to learn? When I look at the Trump courses I have been to the championship tees offer championship golf for today's best players, and now even great amateurs. Trump is ahead of his time as his courses have been ready for tomorrows players for some time now...

[Sean_A]

Steve:  it's Martin Ebert who worked on Turnberry, not Hawtree.

I haven't seen those changes, but there has never been a day when Balmedie was superior to Turnberry, except in the mind of a man who owned one but not the other yet.

Hhhhmmm...not sure you have convinced me.  I was never high on Turnberry and thought it was wildly over-rated.  The changes, at least on paper, may be the smartest thing Trump ever got behind.

Ciao

[Steve Lapper]

Steve:  it's Martin Ebert who worked on Turnberry, not Hawtree.


I haven't seen those changes, but there has never been a day when Balmedie was superior to Turnberry, except in the mind of a man who owned one but not the other yet.

You are right...brain fart confusion....