[Mike_Young]

As we hear more and more talk of the PH2 conditions and how they will affect golf in the US, think about these numbers.
Last year golf was down about 5% and we played around 480,000,000 rounds.  With 16,000 courses that would average around 30,000 rounds per course.  If we could name 1000 ( that's a lot) golf courses which we considered the top private clubs, resorts etc then it would only be possible for around 30 million rounds to be played on such courses which would equate to a little over 6% of rounds played.  So, do you really think the Open this year affected the way most view the game?  Hell no.  15,000 courses already practice less maintenance out of necessity...

[Jason Thurman]

Here's another number that doesn't bode well for Pinehurst affecting the way that most view the game:

3.3

That's the overnight Nielsen Rating. It's a record low for the US Open in a final round. There are plenty of factors that contributed to such a low number, but the bottom line is that Pinehurst didn't even affect how most viewed their TV, let alone the game of golf as a whole.

[Bryan Icenhower]

That is a really, really bad number.  Unfortunately my fear is that many will look to blame how the course looked.  Guarantee Trump uses it.

[Jud_T]

Mike,

Nobody here actually talks about the 15,000.  We just play 'em on the sly... 

[Tom Ferrell]

The lack of viewership was not a referendum on the course, nor was it a referendum on golf.  It was the natural result of a championship that lacked any real tournament drama.  Kaymer is a great champion, but the American sportsfan gets interested when it's Phil or Bubba or several other top players, and they were out of the running.  

Mike - I don't think Pinehurst starts a revolution or anything.  But it is a cool directional stake for the future.  We're already hearing from members about reducing water use, especially at the transition zones between the manicured grass and the native.  That's a great thing - to get requests for *drier* conditions.

[Bryan Icenhower]

The lack of viewership was not a referendum on the course, nor was it a referendum on golf.  It was the natural result of a championship that lacked any real tournament drama.  Kaymer is a great champion, but the American sportsfan gets interested when it's Phil or Bubba or several other top players, and they were out of the running.  

Mike - I don't think Pinehurst starts a revolution or anything.  But it is a cool directional stake for the future.  We're already hearing from members about reducing water use, especially at the transition zones between the manicured grass and the native.  That's a great thing - to get requests for *drier* conditions.

I agree, but people are always looking for a reason.  My hunch, the course will shoulder some of that blame, rightly or wrongly. 

[Paul Gray]

Slowly, slowly.

I'm not sure what people were expecting but endless requests to come and turn the water off was never going to be the result.

As Tom quite rightly says, it is a cool directional stake for the future. I can't speak for America but, here in Britain, I suspect the result to be a gradual reappraisal from the poorly taught greenkeepers at the middle of the road clubs. This very website is evidence in itself that even some supposedly knowledgeable folk struggle to see beyond a look so the road is evidently a long one but, nonetheless, light bulbs will begin to flicker ever so slightly.

American golfers want to see an American winner. Unless it's Tiger, it's the same in every other country. That being the case, a well spoken German devoid of the usual unnecessary bullshit is hardly going to be box office.

[Mike_Young]

I can't speak for America but, here in Britain, I suspect the result to be a gradual reappraisal from the poorly taught greenkeepers at the middle of the road clubs.

Paul,
Do you realize what you are saying here?   I know plenty middle of the road clubs where the supts knows much more than some of guys with 4 assistants, 30 employees, a secretary at a maintenance barn titled Turf Care Center for the Front Nine etc...and he gets it done for much less...come on....

[Dan Kelly]

Just a guess, but it's my guess:

Most people hated the Pinehurst look this past week.

[Jim_Kennedy]

As we hear more and more talk of the PH2 conditions and how they will affect golf in the US, think about these numbers.
Last year golf was down about 5% and we played around 480,000,000 rounds.  With 16,000 courses that would average around 30,000 rounds per course.  If we could name 1000 ( that's a lot) golf courses which we considered the top private clubs, resorts etc then it would only be possible for around 30 million rounds to be played on such courses which would equate to a little over 6% of rounds played.  So, do you really think the Open this year affected the way most view the game?  Hell no.  15,000 courses already practice less maintenance out of necessity...

As someone who works at one of those 'other' 15k clubs I can say that the last few days have people talking, and I think it'll translate into them seeing their own less-than-perfectly-manicured course in a more positive light.

At least I hope so.  

[Andrew Buck]

Just a guess, but it's my guess:

Most people hated the Pinehurst look this past week.

I wouldn't say most, but certainly a decent percentage anecdotally. 

[Mike_Young]

As we hear more and more talk of the PH2 conditions and how they will affect golf in the US, think about these numbers.
Last year golf was down about 5% and we played around 480,000,000 rounds.  With 16,000 courses that would average around 30,000 rounds per course.  If we could name 1000 ( that's a lot) golf courses which we considered the top private clubs, resorts etc then it would only be possible for around 30 million rounds to be played on such courses which would equate to a little over 6% of rounds played.  So, do you really think the Open this year affected the way most view the game?  Hell no.  15,000 courses already practice less maintenance out of necessity...

As someone who works at one of those 'other' 15k clubs I can say that the last few days have people talking, and I think it'll translate into them seeing their own less-than-perfectly-manicured course in a more positive light.

At least I hope so.  

Agree

[Mike Sweeney]

So, do you really think the Open this year affected the way most view the game?  Hell no.  15,000 courses already practice less maintenance out of necessity...

I am going the other way on this...

Scott Ramsey the Super at Yale sends out a newsletter every couple of weeks and he does a pretty good job of explaining what is going on at a complicated site with complicated restrictions. Not sure how many people internal even read it  

Sure Yale is one of the 1000 that you reference, but is is not a rich club in terms of budgets. Now Yale is famous on GCA.com, but in the real world it host many college and Connecticut state tournaments. It gets players from all over the country and the world due to its status as a golf course and from Yale's pedigree as a university.

The point is alot of people look at Yale, and Pinehurst just made Scott Ramsey's job a little easier because they now see a brown course with some roughness around the edges in a different way. Yale can't get firm like Pinehurst, and it really can't go "no rough", but it is pretty brown come July and people will better understand that it is a style choice and not something else.

I think people understand that Pinehurst and Yale are destination courses for many, and yes I really do believe that the local courses follow and keep up with the 1000.

Even when I play at Palmetto, they have their own vibe, unique membership and culture, but they still talk about The National.

Same at Southampton towards Shinnecock and National. Same at Enniscrone towards County Sligo....

[Matthew Petersen]

Come on, no one here really thought clubs all over America would be so enamored with the Pinehurst look that they'd be out ripping up irrigation this morning, did they? That's not how change like this works, it's slower than that.

You have a tournament like this and see if the pros embrace it. They clearly did. Mickelson called it one of the best set-ups he's ever seen, Sneds loved it, and many more guys throughout the week were effusive with praise. That gives the USGA the cover they need to have a browner Open again next year, maybe even the years after that (a brown and dry Oakmont would sure be a statement), to come back to Pinehurst, etc etc.

It was a gradual process that led courses to all think they need to be as green as Augusta, it's going to be a gradual process to change that thinking. Except in cases of extreme drought, of course; nature has no patience.

[Mike_Young]

So, do you really think the Open this year affected the way most view the game?  Hell no.  15,000 courses already practice less maintenance out of necessity...

I am going the other way on this...

Scott Ramsey the Super at Yale sends out a newsletter every couple of weeks and he does a pretty good job of explaining what is going on at a complicated site with complicated restrictions. Not sure how many people internal even read it  

Sure Yale is one of the 1000 that you reference, but is is not a rich club in terms of budgets. Now Yale is famous on GCA.com, but in the real world it host many college and Connecticut state tournaments. It gets players from all over the country and the world due to its status as a golf course and from Yale's pedigree as a university.

The point is alot of people look at Yale, and Pinehurst just made Scott Ramsey's job a little easier because they now see a brown course with some roughness around the edges in a different way. Yale can't get firm like Pinehurst, and it really can't go "no rough", but it is pretty brown come July and people will better understand that it is a style choice and not something else.

I think people understand that Pinehurst and Yale are destination courses for many, and yes I really do believe that the local courses follow and keep up with the 1000.

Even when I play at Palmetto, they have their own vibe, unique membership and culture, but they still talk about The National.

Same at Southampton towards Shinnecock and National. Same at Enniscrone towards County Sligo....

Michael,
I would say each course you mentioned is in the 1000.      I'm talking about Hazelhurst nine in Hazelhurst ,Ga and others similar....they have all been doing the PH thing for years....

[Paul Gray]

I can't speak for America but, here in Britain, I suspect the result to be a gradual reappraisal from the poorly taught greenkeepers at the middle of the road clubs.

Paul,
Do you realize what you are saying here?   I know plenty middle of the road clubs where the supts knows much more than some of guys with 4 assistants, 30 employees, a secretary at a maintenance barn titled Turf Care Center for the Front Nine etc...and he gets it done for much less...come on....

Mike,

I think, since we have similar views about humble golf, that perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about the guy doing a tremendous job to keep a very nice little 9 holer going without the huge budget behind him, I'm talking about the places with delusions of grandeur that confuse squiggly fairway lines and carp ponds with quality. I can't speak about golf in the states but here in Britain it tends to be these very courses which don't get it. Think of the sort of venues which host the Ryder Cup on this side of the pond and you'll begin to get the picture.

[John Kavanaugh]

Just a guess, but it's my guess:

Most people hated the Pinehurst look this past week.

I and the people I know in my real life don't hate the look but we do hate making a very difficult course harder by the introduction of unkept areas while raising the cost to boot. The excuse, because we can just don't fly no more. Now we hear that perfectly good and exciting greens need to be rebuilt at more cost and more down time. We hate that critics come to our courses and profess the same. Change this green, change that green, do what I say because you are privileged and ignorant and don't deserve to be happy when you could be educated. Yes I hate that a few years ago Pinehurst was $200 and green and now it is $400 and brown. I hate that soon the greens will be flatter and more receptive. I hate that scruffy bunkers are nothing but a sight of hand used to distract the golfer from his misses. I hate the look for what it represents, not for how it plays.

[Mike_Young]

It was a gradual process that led courses to all think they need to be as green as Augusta, it's going to be a gradual process to change that thinking. Except in cases of extreme drought, of course; nature has no patience.

No it's not.  12000 have been there long before PH2.

[Matthew Petersen]

It was a gradual process that led courses to all think they need to be as green as Augusta, it's going to be a gradual process to change that thinking. Except in cases of extreme drought, of course; nature has no patience.

No it's not.  12000 have been there long before PH2.

I completely agree with you on that point, Mike. And some places will never not be green and overwatered. That's OK. It's a big world. But I can think of plenty of courses that have that delusion of Augusta grandeur and would be much better served by using a Pinehurst-like amount of water. Maybe they'd charge slightly less, but they still might see larger profits given the cost of H2O.

[Mike Sweeney]

Michael,
I would say each course you mentioned is in the 1000.      I'm talking about Hazelhurst nine in Hazelhurst ,Ga and others similar....they have all been doing the PH thing for years....

Jim Kennedy gives better data from his perch at "Baby Yale" aka Hotchkiss GC. In terms of low key, yes I would put Hotchkiss up against Hazelhurst Now if they start to ask there...and yes there are probably a few players a year at Hotchkiss who play Yale....

By the way, we are only 50% of the way into this Pinehurst experiment....

[Mike_Young]

I can't speak for America but, here in Britain, I suspect the result to be a gradual reappraisal from the poorly taught greenkeepers at the middle of the road clubs.

Paul,
Do you realize what you are saying here?   I know plenty middle of the road clubs where the supts knows much more than some of guys with 4 assistants, 30 employees, a secretary at a maintenance barn titled Turf Care Center for the Front Nine etc...and he gets it done for much less...come on....

Mike,

I think, since we have similar views about humble golf, that perhaps you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about the guy doing a tremendous job to keep a very nice little 9 holer going without the huge budget behind him, I'm talking about the places with delusions of grandeur that confuse squiggly fairway lines and carp ponds with quality. I can't speak about golf in the states but here in Britain it tends to be these very courses which don't get it. Think of the sort of venues which host the Ryder Cup on this side of the pond and you'll begin to get the picture.

I understand.  I just think most guys on this site do not understand what the average guys plays each day.

[Howard Riefs]

The lack of viewership was not a referendum on the course, nor was it a referendum on golf.  It was the natural result of a championship that lacked any real tournament drama.  Kaymer is a great champion, but the American sportsfan gets interested when it's Phil or Bubba or several other top players, and they were out of the running.  
 

I'm not pinpointing the course conditions or lack of drama as the primary/secondary reasons for the lower viewership. 

Instead, in my book, it's the Tiger effect.  As evidence, ratings for this year's Tigerless Masters was down significantly for all four rounds. Sunday's ratings were down 30%, and it was the lowest viewership since 2004.

Sunday
2013:  10.2
2014:    7.8

Saturday
2013:  6.3
2014:  4.4

Friday
2013:  3.0
2014:  1.8

Thursday
2013:  2.5
2014:  1.6

http://hotlinks.golf.com/2014/04/14/hurry-back-tiger-masters-gets-lowest-final-round-tv-ratings-since-2004/

[Mike_Young]

The lack of viewership was not a referendum on the course, nor was it a referendum on golf.  It was the natural result of a championship that lacked any real tournament drama.  Kaymer is a great champion, but the American sportsfan gets interested when it's Phil or Bubba or several other top players, and they were out of the running.  
 

I'm not pinpointing the course conditions or lack of drama as the primary/secondary reasons for the lower viewership. 

Instead, in my book, it's the Tiger effect.  As evidence, ratings for this year's Tigerless Masters was down significantly for all four rounds. Sunday's ratings were down 30%, and it was the lowest viewership since 2004.

Sunday
2013:  10.2
2014:    7.8

Saturday
2013:  6.3
2014:  4.4

Friday
2013:  3.0
2014:  1.8

Thursday
2013:  2.5
2014:  1.6

http://hotlinks.golf.com/2014/04/14/hurry-back-tiger-masters-gets-lowest-final-round-tv-ratings-since-2004/

And Big Break is the most watched show on Golf Channel....what does that tell you?   

[Paul Gray]

Mike,

I get you.

I may be a member at a nice links course but, believe me, I'm not straight out of Eton and Oxford.

Actually, last year I was working for a chain of proprietary clubs and, to emphasise my point, the supposedly better courses in the group were far and away the worst of the lot. They have one particular course on sandy heathland which is miles better than anything else they own but they're too stupid to realise it. Without exception, they throw far more money at other venues and ALL of them play far worse. Tomorrow I'll be playing one of the supposedly lesser courses which is derided by idiots that know no better. I know it to be one of the best the group has.

If Pinehurst stimulates the tinniest little rethink amongst the group, much as I'm suggesting it gradually will, I'll be happy.

Anyway, I digress.

[Sean_A]

Mike

I think its useful to at least seperate the owners/clubs which at least care about how their course is presented.  I have played plenty of ma and pa courses which are very basic designs and very basic conditioning.  Nothing on tv is going to alter their PoV.  There are plenty of more than serviceable designs which are over watered/fed.  Whether or not Pinehurst has any knock on effect I couldn't say.  But I hope its another piece of the puzzle to push owners/clubs into wising up.  That said, I am not under any illusion that less inputs means cheaper golf, but I would enjoy the courses more while paying too much, not Pinehurst too much, but too much just the same.  Mind you, I paid £9 to play Painswick last week.  I can't get my head around that sort of pricing.

Ciao

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