Is the new Pinehurst #2 Maintainable?

[ChipRoyce]

Just got home from the wed practice round at Pinehurst.

Loved what they accomplished by removing the rough. I've played it prior to the renovation and wasn't excited to play the course again. Now dying to go back as the scrub areas give the fairways much more definition and some of the fairway bunkers are incredibly awesome (example the massive fairway bunker on #7 which sits on the inside of the dogleg).

HOWEVER, looking at the scrub areas, I have NO IDEA how they will be able to maintain those areas. When the restoration was done, we saw lots of white sand and sprigs of wiregrass. Now all manner of weeds and other grasses are growing. In addition, many pine saplings are taking root.  Give it a wet fall and mild winter and that stuff will just continue to grow.

So the question is, how the hell are they going to not let those areas get overgrown and 2 feet deep of weeds and other brush?

I can't imagine they can just spray roundup, with risk of losing the wiregrass. In addition, the labor costs of sending crews along a few times a year to remove undesired weeds, etc... would be expensive as hell. 

Tobacco Road seems to have similar issues when we played the 2013 Dixie Cup. What was creative scrub areas got overgrown to the point that the original design intent was getting lost, quickly.

Thoughts?

[Brent Hutto]

I'd imagine it's about as simple as you see it, Chip. Either throw plenty of labor at it on a continual basis or it will look junky after a few years.

[Jud_T]

I'd imagine with a full tee sheet at $410 a pop that it is.  Interestingly there was discussion yesterday that some of the plants that were there prior to the restoration had begun to reestablish themselves in the native.

[Wade Whitehead]

They're using 40% less water and will shift some of that money to maintaining native areas.

WW

[Tom_Doak]

Certainly, it's maintainable.

The question is only whether golfers will accept that the native areas are constantly evolving.  They won't be the same from month to month or from year to year.  It's the same anywhere you try to maintain large areas of "native" and open sand ... Pine Valley, for one.  Streamsong, for another.

I would imagine they let the weeds and junk grow unchecked this spring, to pose a bit more problem for wayward professionals' drives.  When I played in November, I missed about half the fairways, but there was only one time I had a difficult recovery with a clump of wiregrass behind my ball.  I presume they wanted a bit higher percentage than that come tomorrow.

[Paul Gray]

Maintaining scrub shouldn't be difficult but, as Tom said, it will change over time and by the season. If people could only accept the many faces a golf course can have from month to month there wouldn't even be a question to answer.

[Paul Carey]

It will take some occasional maintenance but a lack of irrigation will inhibit growth.  I think in the long run it will be much cheaper than fertilizing and cutting rough.

[Chris DeToro]

For those smarter than I, how does the warm weather in that area impact the ability for it to grow as well?  I have to imagine the summer temps will hamper the scrub from getting out of hand as well

[Tim Gavrich]

Boy, wouldn't that be the epitome of "Be careful what you wish for," to go from people complaining that a golf course isn't uniformly spectacularly green to people complaining that the weedy, sandy scrub off the fairway isn't the same in March and October!

How was the scrub maintained three-quarters of a century ago?

[ChipRoyce]

@Paul Carey, @Chris DeToro @Wade Whitehead The point of my post is that I spent a few hours during my walk around the course just examining the scrub / waste areas. Those areas that don't get pine needles are seeing RAPID reclamation by native plants. And those areas that do get the pine needles is much less interesting.

The sandhills are all about heat and central NC is a surprisingly arid place many times of the year. This stuff is growing in fast and Pinehurst will need a maintenance program to keep the growth in check.

[Randy Thompson]

You always start out with a base which seems to be the wire grass in the case of Pinehurst. Then you let it evolve on its own for a year and then you decide what stays and what goes and créate the chemical programs to coincide with what you want gone and what you want to stay. You create a controlled evolution through the use of round up and pre-emergents. You experiment and you  live and you learn during a five year period(varies depending on the site). IMO, the architect needs to stay involved making a couple of visit per year to bring out the full potential.  I think its a mistake to leave the process up to the superintendents or comittees or owners without the architects input and a productive interchange of ideas between all professionals. If the architect is not involved, its a crap shoot! Last but not least, not all architects specialize in this area or some generally lack the visión and know how and therefore don´t care to be involved.

[Andrew Buck]

They're using 40% less water and will shift some of that money to maintaining native areas.

WW

Is water a major expense in NC?

I guess I'm lucky to live in an area where most courses have wells or another water source and therefore water costs are negligible.

[astavrides]

Can't they just take all the wire grass and everything else out and just have sandy waste areas bordering the fairways? Plant the wire grass again if they want to hold another us open.

[Jaeger Kovich]

A shovel is a vastly overlooked tool for maintenance.

Stop thinking mowers, and start thinking about how the sandy areas were restored a few years ago. They carefully removed grass and certain layers of soil underneath, and replaced it. They do that on a small scale everyday.

[William_G]

HOWEVER, looking at the scrub areas, I have NO IDEA how they will be able to maintain those areas. When the restoration was done, we saw lots of white sand and sprigs of wiregrass. Now all manner of weeds and other grasses are growing. In addition, many pine saplings are taking root.  Give it a wet fall and mild winter and that stuff will just continue to grow.

So the question is, how the hell are they going to not let those areas get overgrown and 2 feet deep of weeds and other brush?

I can't imagine they can just spray roundup, with risk of losing the wiregrass. In addition, the labor costs of sending crews along a few times a year to remove undesired weeds, etc... would be expensive as hell. 

no problem

scrub areas will remain scrub areas and will vary year to year month to month

the maintenance crews will work on the other areas of your "concern"

awesome renovation!

[William_G]

I agree with Tom Doak in that those that expect the same lie in the scrub every time are bound to be disappointed, however they shouldn't be.

 

[Terry Lavin]

It does look a little more "precious" than natural looking, but that should mellow over time.

[John McCarthy]

I have a giant maple in my front yard.  The helicopters create a huge volunteer plant problem in my lawn, my herb boxes and my gutters.

In my lawn, gutters and boxes I can clean them out in less than a hour.

Give a young groundsman a six pack once a week and you will have no volunteer pines.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Even with a lot of labor going into the maintenance of the scrub areas, I think they still will come out ahead.  They are saving a lot of water, fertilizer, labor, and diesel to mow all that rough that was there previously.  Plus, way less irrigation heads to adjust/replace, zero supplemental irrigation, way less clippings management, etc.  Furthermore, you can pretty much assign "native management" as a constant task day in and day out with minimal disruption to golfers.  I think if they follow a sensible gradient of importance it won't be too bad.  For example, 5 yards into the native you encounter mainly wiregrass, while deeper you encounter more and more species.  Will it be easy?  No.  But nothing is easy in maintaining a course like No. 2 with the rounds they pound through there.

[Andrew Hastie]

And what about such a method? Is widely used in the Netherlands in this case at the Royal Haag.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

Just got home from the wed practice round at Pinehurst.

Loved what they accomplished by removing the rough. I've played it prior to the renovation and wasn't excited to play the course again. Now dying to go back as the scrub areas give the fairways much more definition and some of the fairway bunkers are incredibly awesome (example the massive fairway bunker on #7 which sits on the inside of the dogleg).

HOWEVER, looking at the scrub areas, I have NO IDEA how they will be able to maintain those areas. When the restoration was done, we saw lots of white sand and sprigs of wiregrass. Now all manner of weeds and other grasses are growing. In addition, many pine saplings are taking root.  Give it a wet fall and mild winter and that stuff will just continue to grow.

So the question is, how the hell are they going to not let those areas get overgrown and 2 feet deep of weeds and other brush?

I can't imagine they can just spray roundup, with risk of losing the wiregrass. In addition, the labor costs of sending crews along a few times a year to remove undesired weeds, etc... would be expensive as hell. 

Tobacco Road seems to have similar issues when we played the 2013 Dixie Cup. What was creative scrub areas got overgrown to the point that the original design intent was getting lost, quickly.

Thoughts?

You have just described many of the valid reasons the course evolved the way it did after WWII and they added irrigation and increased the amount of mowed bermuda grass.

What you see at Pinehurst today is NOT any of the following:  "No maintenance, low maintenance or natural".   The situation will need to be managed very closely to keep it where it is today.  You don't just turn the water off and walk away.  Consider the evolution of Pine Valley and compare what it looked like in the 50's to what it did in the 90's.   The key is that the water is turned off, huge acres of mowed turf have been removed and the resourses used to mow all the rough are not needed now.  Manpower will still be needed to keep a "managed natural look".  The reward it that the look and interest to the eye is awesome.  The contrast is amazing and it brings the canvas to life with many new dimensions.  As someone already stated, "#2 is now a Bucket List course".

[Carl Rogers]

#2, Mid Pines & Tobacco Road .... 3 different courses and 3 different price points
I do wonder how the "natural areas" will evolve?  From my 2 rounds last month, I agree that TR needs work.

[Mike Hendren]

I propose an artisan's club that culls the natives twice yearly in consideration of off-hours playing privileges.  Plenty of retirees in the area that need something to do.

Bogey

[Wayne_Kozun]

... to people complaining that the weedy, sandy scrub off the fairway isn't the same in March and October!

Surely this is the case at many high end golf courses in places that have high fescue and a winter.  Some of the top clubs here in Ontario (National, Coppinwood, Redtail) have fescue that is hardly an issue at the beginning of the season but it can grow several feet high in mid summer and autumn. Green speeds can also vary greatly depending on the season.

[Brett Hochstein]

Well, they seemed to maintain it just fine back in the early part of the century.  If you look at a place like Wilmington Muni with a low maintenance budget, they have sandy transitions off the fairways from (presumably) doing nothing. 

Pinehurst is a bit different and does have a slightly more aggressive growing climate than the coast, but the savings in watering and mowing must easily offset some occasional manual labor with a backhoe.  There is a video out there with the superintendent explaining the maintenance, and he basically insinuates as much without directly saying it.