[Scott Macpherson]

I seem to recall that it was Charles Blair Macdonald who coined the term 'Golf Course Architecture'? Is this true? If so, when was this, was it in a written article?

I'd like to see the article if anyone has it.

thanks,

Scott

[Ulrich Mayring]

He coined the term "Golf Course Architect". This according to Cornish & Whitten, The Architects of Golf. Do you have that book?

Ulrich

[Mark Bourgeois]

pp 265-66 in my copy of 'Scotland's Gift': 'I do not believe the term "golf architect" can be found in golf records previous to 1901, the time I formulated the idea of copying the famous holes, sometimes not in their entirety...I believe this was the birth of golf architecture.'

Also:

[Mike_Young]

Read the book "A Difficult Par" the biography of RTJ sr and you ill see the efforts he went to to create such a profession.   

[Niall C]

Mark

I had always heard that CBM came up with the term golf course architect but never knew where it came from. However if the idea that he did come up with that term was Cornish & Whittens as Ulrich suggests then to me that's different to the quote from Scotlands Gift where CBM seems to be suggesting he gave birth to golf course architecture which is something entirely different (and complete bollocks IMO).

Architecture, or design, had clearly been around for decades if not centuries before. Holes and courses weren't just tracts of land with randomly placed holes in them before CBM came along. As to who first came up with the term, sorry, no idea but I would hazard a guess that it wasn't CBM.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

Niall:

Macdonald believed his idea of using classical concepts was a more formal interpretation of "architecture" than anything that had been done before.  I don't think he denied that Old Tom Morris and many others had created courses, and done significant work to build them ... but CBM compared his sort of architecture to borrowing classical Greek column forms, and the old Scots pros certainly didn't think of it in that way.

In reserving the term "golf course architecture" for his own style, Macdonald may well have realized he was dismissing other efforts as "lesser" through his vocabulary -- and I'm guessing he didn't have a problem in doing so.

P.S.  I know that Willie Park liked to call himself a "golf architect" but I have no idea when he started using the term.

[Scott Macpherson]

I appreciate the thoughts so far, but having gone back to the books I have (which include the CBM book and the C&W tome), I am not sure CBM did coin the phase.

CBM says he does not think the term golf architect can be found prior to 1901, implying it is in writing in 1901, while C&W say ; 'Macdonald, who coined the title "golf architect" in 1902, ...' (p56).

There is a disconnect here. Any other thoughts are welcome.

Scott

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:

The discrepancy could be like the marketing for a course here in northern Michigan.  When they were building it, they frequently said it was going to be "the Pebble Beach of the Midwest".  Then, once it opened, they switched to, "People are comparing it to Pebble Beach,"   even though, as far as I know, they themselves were the only ones to do so.

[Scott Macpherson]

Tom;

Yes, that's a possibility (and I like your example. Is there a hole somewhere we can drop those PR guys into..... ...)

Meantime, I'll check some of the Willie Park Jr stuff I have. He was dynamic enough that he could have developed the term.

Scott

[DMoriarty]

Scott,

See the first few pages of CBM's chapter, "Inception of Ideal Golf Links."  Doesn't give the specific reference, but it helps explain the timing and his thinking/action on the topic. 

Niall, 

As Tom mentioned, your definition of architecture was quite a bit broader than CBM's.  Also, it helps to look at his comments in context.  For example, part of his discussion is in the context of whether or not "golf architects" should have been considered professionals.  In his mind, the discipline had developed to the point that it ought to have been considered a separate art, not necessarily linked to profiting off of golfing skill.

Regarding your "guess" that it wasn't CBM who coined the term "golf architect," that may be.  But CBM said he wasn't aware of any previous references, and neither am I.   Are you aware of any earlier references?   Seems a better avenue to pursue than just guessing.

[Neil Regan]

The term is used in 1896 in Baily's Magazine of Sports and Pastimes.
Excerpt below, page 76, courtesy of Google Books.
edit:
Mark Bourgeois also found this citation a few years ago.

[DMoriarty]

Thanks Neil.  I guess CBM missed that issue.

[Bill Brightly]

The term is used in 1896 in Baily's Magazine of Sports and Pastimes.
Excerpt below, page 76, courtesy of Google Books.

Yikes Neil, how the hell did you find THAT? Another good legend busted!

For all of you newbies, that is a fine example of the power of gca.com and why I rarely speak in absolutes...

[Joe Hancock]

Bill,

I'll go one step further by saying that I always avoid absolutes.......

Neil,

Boris would be proud.

[Bill Brightly]

Bill,

I'll go one step further by saying that I always avoid absolutes.......

The problem with that, Joe: is it an absolute...

[Ulrich Mayring]

Could someone enlighten me what this text proves? I don't see the term "golf architect" in it - perhaps my browser is broken?

Ulrich

[Scott Macpherson]

Well done Neil. Brilliant. That (1896) is now the earliest reference I have seen to a 'Golf architect'. I wonder if it is the first reference, and if we might find the earliest reference to the term 'Golf Course Architecture'...?

Thanks again for your very helpful contribution.

Scott

[Ulrich Mayring]

Scott,

where do you see the term "golf architect" in that excerpt?

Ulrich

[Peter Pallotta]

I think architect-writers before CBM (e.g. Hutchinson, Low) understood and discussed the Whats and Hows of golf course architecture (i.e. the practical aspects), and even sometimes touched on the Whys and Shoulds of gca (i.e. the philosophical and asthetic aspects). But CBM seems to have taken all that and elevated it to a meta/ontological level i.e. the Meaning of gca, and of the fields of play it creates. In short, CBM seems to have been the foremost proponent/promoter of the idea that gca Matters. It was an easy step from there to RTJones promoting the idea that architects mattered, i.e. to solidifying the role of the professional designer.

Peter   

[Niall C]

Ulrich

I'm the same as you, can't see any reference to golf course architect or architecture. Neil

Any chance you can repost because for whatever reason I'm not seeing any text below the Baileys Magazine logo and neither can I scroll down.

Thanks

Niall

[Niall C]

Niall:

Macdonald believed his idea of using classical concepts was a more formal interpretation of "architecture" than anything that had been done before.  I don't think he denied that Old Tom Morris and many others had created courses, and done significant work to build them ... but CBM compared his sort of architecture to borrowing classical Greek column forms, and the old Scots pros certainly didn't think of it in that way.

In reserving the term "golf course architecture" for his own style, Macdonald may well have realized he was dismissing other efforts as "lesser" through his vocabulary -- and I'm guessing he didn't have a problem in doing so.

P.S.  I know that Willie Park liked to call himself a "golf architect" but I have no idea when he started using the term.

Tom

I think you are making assumptions as to what the old pros thought, and probably so do I, which is an easy thing to do when notoriously there is very little by way of written evidence outside that of Park and perhaps Braid. The written dialogue on golf course architecture in the golden age was almost entirely between the amateur golfers/professional gca set of the likes of MacKenzie/Simpson/Colt/Ambrose and of course CBM. I think it's easy therefore to fall into the trap of assuming that the golfing pro's designs were entirely intuitive without any reference to classical golf holes. I think they did but there just isn't a written history explaining it. All conjecture on my part.

My reason for thinking that the old pro's were ahead of CBM in using classical concepts is the 4th at Silloth. There is an old forward tee there that is now rarely if ever used and I suspect it was the original tee for that hole especially given where the 3rd green used to be. Now hands up I've never played a Biarritz hole but the description if the original that I've read shares striking similarities particularly with the green complex. Given the North Berwick connection with the creation of both holes I don't think it too much of a stretch to think there was the use of a recognised design concept.

One other hole that points that way to me is the 4th at Killermont. Killie was Old Tom's last 18 hole course built in 1903. The 4th is an absolute stick on for a Redan. Is it likely that Old Tom at the age of 83 (?) starting designing what we would call template holes ? I suppose it's possible he started doing that on the back of the best short holes series in one of the mags in 1901 but personally I think it unlikely.

As I said, all conjecture on my part.

Niall

[Niall C]

Niall, 

As Tom mentioned, your definition of architecture was quite a bit broader than CBM's.  Also, it helps to look at his comments in context.  For example, part of his discussion is in the context of whether or not "golf architects" should have been considered professionals.  In his mind, the discipline had developed to the point that it ought to have been considered a separate art, not necessarily linked to profiting off of golfing skill.

David

I'll need to pull Scotland's Gift off the shelf look up the passages you suggest. From what you say however CBM clearly thought that the old pro's were trading purely on their golfing skills in getting design work which is why I find it ironic that he think himself superior to them when it's their designs he's copying.

Niall 

[Neil Regan]

Here are the images from another host, for those who cannot see the links to Google Books.

[Niall C]

Neil

Many thanks for that. That's a very interesting reference and would love to read the whole article if that was possible. The reference to use of hazards and not blaming the architect for using what he had is striking. Love to see more of this article.

Niall

[Neil Regan]

Niall,

  Use Google Books.
This search will find the 1896 Bailey's volume:

baily's magazine sports and pastimes 1896 volume 69

---------
There are many more old books just begging to be researched.

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