Question for the Group about International Golf trips

[jeffwarne]

Go right back to County Down and play it til you know the place, the club, and the course. Life's too valuable to run around ticking boxes.

Wouldn't that just be ticking different boxes?
To each his own.
Everybody likes to experience travel and new places differently.

[Niall C]

Mac

Come back to Scotland and base your trip round Forfar, you won't be sorry.

Niall

[Mark Bourgeois]

Go right back to County Down and play it til you know the place, the club, and the course. Life's too valuable to run around ticking boxes.

One extreme is cramming 36 holes a day but this is the other extreme. It certainly doesn't appeal to me. Going around certain courses more than once absolutely - rushing around no way - but one course or club for, say, an entire week or 10 days of a trip? I would need more stimulation and my desire to see new and other great things would get the better of me.

You'd wear out your welcome by day 2, huh? 

Anyway, I didn't mean play only that course -- not necessarily. (And 10 days? We're Americans, not Europeans. We don't take off entire months from work.) Depends on what Mac likes and on who he meets. Spend just a couple of days in a place and you'll get invited to all sorts of places. Dinner at the captain's house, the second-tier links courses that you discover are better than just about any course back home, the ferry ride over to the Isle of Man as part of a club outing, a day trip down to Portmarnock -- heck, that's just a two-hour drive away.

Sometimes the best planning is (almost) no planning. Highly structured trips by definition squeeze out the white spaces. The white spaces are where the moments find us, the moments we carry to our graves. Personal experiences that can't be fully translated to others.

[Terry Lavin]

Barcelona, Madrid, Paris, Rome and Vienna. Leave the sticks home.

[BCrosby]

Mark the B. says -

"Sometimes the best planning is (almost) no planning. Highly structured trips by definition squeeze out the white spaces. The white spaces are where the moments find us, the moments we carry to our graves. Personal experiences that can't be fully translated to others."

Bingo.

Bob

[Mike Hendren]

I played six courses in four days during my ten days stay in London.  There is nothing better than taking a train with a small bag in hand while the rest of the passengers around you grimly brace for the coming workday.  Of the 6 courses I played one (Huntercombe) is in my personal top five favorites while the other 5 (Sunningdale Old/New, Walton Heath Old, Deal and Sandwich ALL cracked my top 25 best list.  Only one regret - not playing Walton Heath New.  Go to England.  Go.  Really.

Bogey

[Eric Smith]

Mac,

I would imagine you could do no wrong with any of the destinations you're considering. As others have stated, I think England is probably the easier choice, logistically. Knowing full well that Mr. Sheehy would likely avail himself to squire you about town for at least a portion of your stay is another plus in favor of a London-based excursion.

[Ryan Hillenbrand]

To piggyback on Mac's post - when one settles on the destination, who would you recommend as a travel vendor?

[Mark Bourgeois]

Ryan,

For GB&I Sean Arble's your man. Amazing knowledge bank of courses as well as the all-important matter of logistics.

Mark

[William_G]

Go right back to County Down and play it til you know the place, the club, and the course. Life's too valuable to run around ticking boxes.

+1

you could then head to Lahinch, Ballybunion, and then meet up with Trump, and then see Sheehy at Tralee.

Cabot Cliffs will also be open in a couple years, and I love Canada

[cary lichtenstein]

Go to Australia and New Zealand

Great courses

Then go back to Scotland and Ireland

[Mark Pritchett]

Mac,

Join RCD and be done with it!

Mark

[Rich Goodale]

If you choose England over Australia, my advice would be to cover the three Heathland courses Scott mentioned as a starting point for great English golf and then perhaps three other Sean Arble specials: I would suggest Kington, Huntercombe and Painswick.

Brian

To call Painswick a "Sean Arble special" does a real disservice to Paul Turner who "discovered" the course for GCA.com c. 2001 and conflates Sean's influence regarding that course, given that his first posts on Painswick were derogatory and dismissive of that marvellous experience.  I'm very glad Sean has finally seen the way vis a vis Painswick, but he was and is very much a late comer to that opinion.

Rich

PS--modified to include a link to Paul's original piece.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,11842.0.html

[Bill_McBride]

Go right back to County Down and play it til you know the place, the club, and the course. Life's too valuable to run around ticking boxes.

+1

you could then head to Lahinch, Ballybunion, and then meet up with Trump, and then see Sheehy at Tralee.

Cabot Cliffs will also be open in a couple years, and I love Canada

Summer 2015 I think, so just a year out.   With a side trip to Highland Links, that will be one great trip. 

[RJ_Daley]

It seems to me that Mac emphasised the caveat, "given where I've already been".   If it is an international experience he seeks, and the fact he can easily travel ATL to GB&I in a few hours, I'd go the Austral-asian choice.  But speaking from personal circumstances, I feel like such a trip can't just involve golf as a singular focus.  If you don't leave time for meeting the people and enjoying the culture, in my mind you miss the essence of the idea of international travel.  In that regard, the Aussies and Kiwis are fun loving and welcoming people living in amazing cities and towns with a wide variety of culture and experiences on offer.  

But, if you only have time for a golf centric trip, then plan it as others advise and see the styles and venues you have not seen so far in GB&I, and maximize your time.   But, even the more exotic suggestion of JK's, seems better for the real international sojourn in my view.

[Mac Plumart]

Great responses so far.  Thanks, guys.

Lots of food for thought. 

Please keep them coming if you've got some thoughts.  I'm all ears.

[Bart Bradley]

I played six courses in four days during my ten days stay in London.  There is nothing better than taking a train with a small bag in hand while the rest of the passengers around you grimly brace for the coming workday.  Of the 6 courses I played one (Huntercombe) is in my personal top five favorites while the other 5 (Sunningdale Old/New, Walton Heath Old, Deal and Sandwich ALL cracked my top 25 best list.  Only one regret - not playing Walton Heath New.  Go to England.  Go.  Really.

Bogey

I think this says most of it...

Around London:

Sunningdale New/Old
Swinley Forest
Walton Heath New/Old
St. Georges Hill

Then down to the coast for some links golf:

Littlestone
Rye
Deal
Sandwich.

Great trip..great courses..great people.

If England itinerary 1 does not cut it, then go NW England.

Fly into Manchester,

Holylake
Lytham and St. Annes
Birkdale
Formby

Then inland to

Notts

Over to

Woodhall Spa
Ganton

Then back inland to

Alwoodley and

Then back home via Manchester.

Or wait a year or two (to allow King Island courses to open) and go to Australia, King Island, Tasmania. ---

If you are looking for a suggestion not yet discussed consider Alberta/British Colombia...Banff, Jasper, Capilano (3 great Stanley Thompson courses) and fill in with some others.

Lastly, Dornoch is a must see and lends nicely to a week long trip..

Dornoch, multiple times
Tain
Brora
Golspie
Castle Stuart
Fraserburg
Cruden Bay
Trump
Royal Aberdeen

Bart

Edited for brain cramp spelling of Notts

[Sean_A]

If you choose England over Australia, my advice would be to cover the three Heathland courses Scott mentioned as a starting point for great English golf and then perhaps three other Sean Arble specials: I would suggest Kington, Huntercombe and Painswick.

Brian

To call Painswick a "Sean Arble special" does a real disservice to Paul Turner who "discovered" the course for GCA.com c. 2001 and conflates Sean's influence regarding that course, given that his first posts on Painswick were derogatory and dismissive of that marvellous experience.  I'm very glad Sean has finally seen the way vis a vis Painswick, but he was and is very much a late comer to that opinion.

Rich

PS--modified to include a link to Paul's original piece.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,11842.0.html

Rihc

While never derogatory nor dismissive, my opinion of Painswick has changed very little (and that comes with the Mucci cover of ~20 plays in all seasons and over perhaps 10 years) - despite your many claims to the contrary.  I am not nor ever have been a big fan of the course, but I enjoy returning for a smack in the gob once or twice a year.  That in no way means that I wouldn't recommend people see Painswick because I would and do simply because it is an insane design which likely gives insight into how courses were orginally designed.  Painswick is a must for any golf design junkie of which I do not include myself.

Ciao

[Jim Tang]

Ah, the greatest problem we all face; too many courses to see and not nearly enough time or money to see them.

My vote is for Australia.  Obviously Royal Melbourne is at the top of the list.  A few days at Barnbougle Dunes, perhaps Cape Wickham if it's open, some of the other Sandbelt courses and suddenly, you have a fantastic golf trip.

Aussies are some of the nicest and most welcoming people I've ever been around.  Australia has great food, beer and unbelievable scenery.

[Jud_T]

Don't forget New Zealand. However I'd probably wait for the new Doak course there as well.

Can't imagine going to England without utilizing Sean's local knowledge, particularly if you're looking beyond just the big names.  Also the accommodations, food and nightlife in London would be hard to beat.

[Rich Goodale]

If you choose England over Australia, my advice would be to cover the three Heathland courses Scott mentioned as a starting point for great English golf and then perhaps three other Sean Arble specials: I would suggest Kington, Huntercombe and Painswick.

Brian

To call Painswick a "Sean Arble special" does a real disservice to Paul Turner who "discovered" the course for GCA.com c. 2001 and conflates Sean's influence regarding that course, given that his first posts on Painswick were derogatory and dismissive of that marvellous experience.  I'm very glad Sean has finally seen the way vis a vis Painswick, but he was and is very much a late comer to that opinion.

Rich

PS--modified to include a link to Paul's original piece.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,11842.0.html

Rihc

While never derogatory nor dismissive, my opinion of Painswick has changed very little (and that comes with the Mucci cover of ~20 plays in all seasons and over perhaps 10 years) - despite your many claims to the contrary.  I am not nor ever have been a big fan of the course, but I enjoy returning for a smack in the gob once or twice a year.  That in no way means that I wouldn't recommend people see Painswick because I would and do simply because it is an insane design which likely gives insight into how courses were orginally designed.  Painswick is a must for any golf design junkie of which I do not include myself.

Ciao

 

[Mike Hendren]

The tie-breaker:   Jeeves & Wooster in Perfect Nonsense.



Bogey

[Sean_A]

If you choose England over Australia, my advice would be to cover the three Heathland courses Scott mentioned as a starting point for great English golf and then perhaps three other Sean Arble specials: I would suggest Kington, Huntercombe and Painswick.

Brian

To call Painswick a "Sean Arble special" does a real disservice to Paul Turner who "discovered" the course for GCA.com c. 2001 and conflates Sean's influence regarding that course, given that his first posts on Painswick were derogatory and dismissive of that marvellous experience.  I'm very glad Sean has finally seen the way vis a vis Painswick, but he was and is very much a late comer to that opinion.

Rich

PS--modified to include a link to Paul's original piece.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,11842.0.html

Rihc

While never derogatory nor dismissive, my opinion of Painswick has changed very little (and that comes with the Mucci cover of ~20 plays in all seasons and over perhaps 10 years) - despite your many claims to the contrary.  I am not nor ever have been a big fan of the course, but I enjoy returning for a smack in the gob once or twice a year.  That in no way means that I wouldn't recommend people see Painswick because I would and do simply because it is an insane design which likely gives insight into how courses were orginally designed.  Painswick is a must for any golf design junkie of which I do not include myself.

Ciao

 

Rihc

I am not sure why you are confused, if that is what  means.  I simply offered a rebuttal (to your quote below) which I think is far more accurate concerning what I have previously written, said and thought about Painswick. This is not the first time you tried this line and I am sure it won't be the last.
 
given that his first posts on Painswick were derogatory and dismissive of that marvellous experience.  I'm very glad Sean has finally seen the way vis a vis Painswick, but he was and is very much a late comer to that opinion.

Ciao

[Mark Bourgeois]

Looks like we're facing a debate type situation.

[James Boon]

Mac,

The suggestion to head to Australia New Zealand this time round to break up your GB & I experience isn't a bad one, and that's coming from someone who would always suggest a trip to England! 

Having said that, Bart isn't far off what I think would be a great England trip:
Arrive Heathrow,
36 at Sunningdale (or some other such heathland course in the area...)
Head north for 9 at Royal Worlington & Newmarket aka The Sacred Nine
Brancaster and Hunstanton on the coast
Head inland for some combination of Woodhall Spa, Notts (no K Bart!!!) Beau Desert, Alwoodley, Ganton (not all of these, but depending upon your route a combination of a few of these is possible)
Finish off with the Lancs links say Formby, Southport & Ainsdale and Birkdale.
One last round at Cavendish before flying home from Manchester?

I understand the attraction of  the Kent coast and Surrey / Berkshire heaths plus the West Country quirk and links (as I've sampled most of them myself) I just feel the north needs putting forwards as a decent trip also!

Cheers,

James

Ps Knowing Sean Arble I suspect he is often somewhat embarrassed by the pedestal some of you put him on regarding the second tier courses in England as a, he isn't always the first person to highlight them as discussed and b, he is far too modest. However perhaps his new venture means he now likes all the publicity he can get!   
Ps2 if the northern trip takes your fancy and you want to play Notts, let me know.