350 yard tee shots

[cary lichtenstein]

490 yard par 4  reduced to driver and wedge. Time to bring golf ball back to reality.

[jeffwarne]

490 yard par 4  reduced to driver and wedge. Time to bring golf ball back to reality.

No because some pea shooter is convinced it will suck the fun out of he game for him, even though that fun is already sucked out if he plays a post
year 2000 course where he walks 100 yards from green to tee so he can play the "appropriate" tees.

No matter how well they are designed, walking nearly all modern courses takes significantly longer than a classic course

[Brent Hutto]

If you're talking about PGA Tour events, they have ShotLink at every tournament. Why not cut to the chase and just amend the Rules of Golf saying any tee shot traveling more than 280 yards means instant DQ from the event. That way you won't have to roll the ball back again in 10 years when they start hitting the rolled back ball 350.

[Mike Bowen]

It is interesting to hear people who are not pro's defending the pro's right to play a 500 yard hole with driver and short iron.

[Tim_Weiman]

350 yard tee shots are silly and more evidence the golf technology arms race makes no sense.

[Patrick_Mucci]

490 yard par 4  reduced to driver and wedge. Time to bring golf ball back to reality.

Cary,

Last Sunday I had a guest from Atlanta at MRCC.

While we were on the practice tee, a youngster who's a senior on the high school golf team with my son was next to us and hitting his driver from the lower tee and carrying it to the upper tee.

That's 274+ yards, UPHILL.

The staff came down to tell him to stop hitting driver.

He has a beautiful, powerful swing and should only get better, but, hitting it on a fly, 274 yards, uphill is incredible for a 17/18 year old.
His irons have a beautiful high trajectory with a slight draw.

I can't imagine him not winning the club championship this year, especially if it's a little damp.

[Pete Lavallee]

Power and the distance it provides is always rewarded, no matter the scale. Classic distances make for an easy walk and a  shorter round, strangely both things the USGA embraces. 

[Sam Morrow]

I wonder if the same was being said when players started hitting drivers consistently 250 yards, or 270 yards?

[Matthew Rose]

Persimmon woods only on tour, like baseball.

[Matthew Petersen]

I think the real solution is to just quit caring. So what if some people can hit it 350, or 360, or 370? So what if some people can shoot 59, or 58, or 57?

The solution is to applaud and acknowledge their talent. 99% of players aren't exactly re-writing record books even with modern equipment and balls.

If we can just get over the notion that it's offensive for the best players in the world to be really, really good at golf, then we could quit doing the ridiculous things we do to try to pretend nothing has changed, like lengthen courses to absurd extents, cut greens to a height that barely qualifies as grass, etc.

Some people hitting the ball far hurts no one. It's the misguided responses that hurt the rest of us.

[Sam Morrow]

I think the real solution is to just quit caring. So what if some people can hit it 350, or 360, or 370? So what if some people can shoot 59, or 58, or 57?

The solution is to applaud and acknowledge their talent. 99% of players aren't exactly re-writing record books even with modern equipment and balls.

If we can just get over the notion that it's offensive for the best players in the world to be really, really good at golf, then we could quit doing the ridiculous things we do to try to pretend nothing has changed, like lengthen courses to absurd extents, cut greens to a height that barely qualifies as grass, etc.

Some people hitting the ball far hurts no one. It's the misguided responses that hurt the rest of us.

Well said.

[mike_beene]

Someone who knows golf and golf courses much better than most of us said the other day ,and I paraphrase: you can't build a course long enough to control some of the current players so why waste energy worrying about whether the course is 6800 yards or 7100 yards ( if you aren't going to 8000 it doesn't matter); the game is and has always been about 100 yards and in. And today more so than ever.

[Donovan Childers]

Are we just worried about the Pro golfer? Because I have met only 1 or 2 people outside of the top pro's who can actually hit 350. One of those people was last month, and his numbers were backed up by trackman.  The pro's can hit it as far as they want, make them putt slow bumpy greens, and you will see a whole different quality of golf being played.

[Pat Burke]

FYI
I started playing a bit more this year, and have really struggled.
I have not (until this week) been able to find irons that I can spin enough
to control the distances and flight with.
This week, I went to one of the major companies to work on a solution.
I am hitting my driver pretty much on 260 yard carry.
My 6 iron is basically flying 167-169.

As we were talking, the guy I was working with, informed me that one of their PGA Tour
staffers was having a similar problem with spin rate, despite having 18-20 more MPH clubhead speed
than I have.  Mostly an angle of attack and path issue, in many ways, for both of us.

My point?  Don't really have one.  I still hit it decent distance, and this guy, is in the top 20-25 in distance and
has nearly 20 mph more clubhead speed!!!
He could hit a fucking whiffle ball past me!

[JESII]

It is interesting to hear people who are not pro's defending the pro's right to play a 500 yard hole with driver and short iron.

Mike,

Did you really say "right"?

[Jon Wiggett]

This is really an issue for the top few % of players. It would be best if either the R&A and USGA had the courage to take 10 to 15 % of the ball or that the pro tours would introduce such a rule. An obvious place to trial it would be Augusta which could introduce a 'Masters Ball'.

Jon

[Ivan Lipko]

Can u hit the ball 300 yards? Is game really that easy for you you are shooting in the mid 60s consistently?then, why do you care? I respect all of you guys, but sometimes this talks about golf technology making game too easy soundsilly.

[Sean_A]

Of course 350 yard shots are silly, but caring what the pros do is also silly. Let them figure out how to produce a product that entertains and until they do, don't buy it, don't watch it, don't support it.  

Golf course design won't change because the ball is rolled back.  In the main, modern courses will still be designed for cart ball.  Its sad, but thats the way convenient culture works.  Going back to 7000 yard courses isn't going to mean courses are more walkable or fun.  Designing courses to accommodate the walking 20 capper will provide fun.  There are more than enough great examples of courses that are fun, a good walk and challenging to all but the best.  Its down to golfers, archies and developers to demand that sort of golf.    

I will never be able to get my head around the thinking that a rollback is the saviour of golf or that the fun of the game has been sapped by the long ball.  

Ciao

[Ivan Lipko]

Isnt bombing huge high drives over long forced carries the most fun part about golf? Or at least one of those great things? I have yet to discover the pleasures of low flying shots since they remind me of my hacker days, when I was topping every ball and couldnt make them airborne with anything but the wedge.

[Jon Wiggett]

I will never be able to get my head around the thinking that a rollback is the saviour of golf or that the fun of the game has been sapped by the long ball. 

Ciao

Sean,

I am surprised to see you saying such things. It does effect players such as you in as much that many of the golden age masterpieces that you so eloquently write about are the last few of a once larger stock many of whom have been lost to poor decisions to alter and lengthen due to the distance the ball flies.

Ivan,

whilst I agree that the pros do not have much to do with the rest of us the 'bombing' is great idea leads to boring, one dimensional GCA which is the bane of the intelligent golfer and played by so many of the tours events.

Jon

[Paul Gray]

I think the real solution is to just quit caring. So what if some people can hit it 350, or 360, or 370? So what if some people can shoot 59, or 58, or 57?

The solution is to applaud and acknowledge their talent. 99% of players aren't exactly re-writing record books even with modern equipment and balls.

If we can just get over the notion that it's offensive for the best players in the world to be really, really good at golf, then we could quit doing the ridiculous things we do to try to pretend nothing has changed, like lengthen courses to absurd extents, cut greens to a height that barely qualifies as grass, etc.

Some people hitting the ball far hurts no one. It's the misguided responses that hurt the rest of us.

Problem is, it does hurt a lot of people and a lot of classic courses to boot.

Consider that The Masters is widely now regarded as a tournament which only certain pros can win, regardless of creative talent, and things begin to look a little different. Nick Faldo, though you'd never guess it from many of the comments he makes about the modern game, probably couldn't win at Augusta if he were born 30 years later. And Faldo is just one of many.

And just think of all the great courses which you just aren't going to see on tour any time soon. It's a crying shame that the best chance you have of seeing a shorter but exceptional course on TV is to catch some coverage of a feeder tour.   

[jeffwarne]

I think the real solution is to just quit caring. So what if some people can hit it 350, or 360, or 370? So what if some people can shoot 59, or 58, or 57?

The solution is to applaud and acknowledge their talent. 99% of players aren't exactly re-writing record books even with modern equipment and balls.

If we can just get over the notion that it's offensive for the best players in the world to be really, really good at golf, then we could quit doing the ridiculous things we do to try to pretend nothing has changed, like lengthen courses to absurd extents, cut greens to a height that barely qualifies as grass, etc.

Some people hitting the ball far hurts no one. It's the misguided responses that hurt the rest of us.

Well said.

Therein lies the reason that there's been no rollback--Apathy and enough people with a vested interest in the arms race.
No ones denying the best players have talent and are skilled athletes.
We want to see their improvements come from practice and SKILL enhancement, not time spent optimizing in a wind tunnel with the latest equipment of the week.
Tennis innovated themselves right into a power game and participation plummeted.
When golfers play modern monstrocities from different tees because of distance disparities due to the same thing, the game suffers.

Was baseball better during the steroid era?

Because that's what Taylormade is doing to the game under the inaction of the USGA who would outlaw a technique innovation(belly putters) that allows  more people to keep playing and harms no greens, while looking the other way at technical innovations and bastardizing the very classic courses they hold their championships on.

[Bill Brightly]

Are we just worried about the Pro golfer? Because I have met only 1 or 2 people outside of the top pro's who can actually hit 350. One of those people was last month, and his numbers were backed up by trackman.  The pro's can hit it as far as they want, make them putt slow bumpy greens, and you will see a whole different quality of golf being played.

Donovan, Sean A and others,

Forget the 350 yard drive, which is an outlier distance even for the pros. It is the 290 to 320 yard drive, a distance that many top amateurs can drive the ball. That distance puts tremendous pressure on club leaders of many classic courses and I will try to explain it from the perspective of a (former) Grounds Chair and member of our Restoration Committee.

I played from the tips last Sunday with our current club champ, a 27-year old former college player who easily carries the ball 300 yards in the air. Our 515 yard par five 10th hole has a bunker 285 off the tee blocking the right half of the fairway. I cannot reach the bunker, but this guy aims at it and flies it every time. I've come to the conclusion that you can't (or shouldn't) design golf courses for guys this long, but there are at least a half a dozen guys in my club this long. So there is talk that we should build a new Black tee. The cost of a new tee roughly equals the cost of restoring a lost bunker or two, changes that I would prefer. Since money is limited, "adding length for the sake of adding length" will always have a voice in a most golf clubs, and that sentiment will come from the "sticks," a group that somehow wields more power than their numbers should warrant, including the fathers of the "sticks." So while I would prefer to restore the bunker complex at the green in the style of the ODG, the "sticks" want a new tee.

This type of "conflict" can be played out on just about every hole where we have land behind the current tee, including our Short...(which I quickly put a stop to!) I know that a rollback on the ball will not happen but I also know the pressure it puts on club leaders to add length. Neither will go away.

[Sean_A]

Wrong.  Its the knee jerk reaction to the long ball which damages courses.  But then its a lot easier to blame the USGA and manufacturers for the problem when in fact its folks we know or know of who actually decide to alter courses - and usually its about ego more than anything else. Some folks can't stand the idea that their course isn't thought worthy to hold a US Open or an Open.  Its an arms race perpetuated by clubs desperate to hold onto their standing in the game - a race that can't be won.  Then of course the wannabees tag along because they are too stupid to think for themselves.  The power lies with golfers and club memberships, not with the USGA and manufacturers.  Once people get a grip on this perhaps they will be satisfied with what they have and try to preserve it.  If enough clubs and golfers say no to the USGA and R&A then we are getting somewhere, but it takes a culture shift of dropping egos.  I am firmly convinced that rolling back the ball only pushes the real problem of not being able to say no the USGA, the R&A and any other group who wants too lengthen courses to entertain the idea of hosting the best players once in a blue moon onto the next generation who will then go through the entire bunch of nonsense we and every generation before has gone through.  Manufacturers have smarter and better trained people working for them than does any golf body. Entering into an arms race only fattens their coffers to continue the status quo.  I think its the same with practically everything concerning golf. When will golfers be satisfied with what they have instead of constantly wanting more.  More short game practice areas, more par 3 courses, more putting greens, more yardage, more children playing, more women playing, more access to better clubs...more, more, more.  Its a greedy ego trip which is most unpleasant to witness.  Then to top it off, these same people want the USGA & R&A to step in to and control them from their own ego trip.  Its priceless stuff.  

The one excellent recent development with people in effect saying no is the increased interest in hickories.  Even though I have little desire to play with hickories, I am tempting into because at least these folks are making a positive statement which is also fun, rather than standing around waggin their fingers at the USGA and R&A.  If the damn sticks were cheaper, I would have made the plunge a few years ago.        

Ciao  

[Tom_Doak]

Forget 350 yards ... a couple of prominent teachers have told me they've got kids who consistently hit the ball 350 and occasionally hit a 400-yard drive.

I agree with Sean that in general, we overreact to how far some kid hits one occasionally, but when they start hitting them TWICE AS FAR as we do, the cat is out of the bag.