[Bill_McBride]

Pensacola Country Club seeks a new superintendent.  

Tonight I attended a membership meeting where this was announced.  We have had a terrible time with our 9-year old TifDwarf greens.  Nematodes, poor turf.  The board has decided to put in new TifEagle greens.  For the past two years we have had three experimental / demonstration greens, one each TifEagle, Champion, MiniVerde.  The TifEagle has performed much better and will be so sprigged in June after fumigation and clearing of the current greens and organic build up.  

I am no longer on the board or green committee, but would be happy to provide contact info for any interested parties.   Warm weather grass skills would be an important asset!

Send me an IM if interested.  

Bill

[Randy Thompson]

Hola Bill,
Were the demonstration greens in play or were they nurseries. Do you know in what way the tiff Eagle out preformed the champions and mini verde that casued the scales to tip in favor of the Tiff Eagle? Who cut the cake and made the final decisión?
Randy

[Bill_McBride]

Hola Bill,
Were the demonstration greens in play or were they nurseries. Do you know in what way the tiff Eagle out preformed the champions and mini verde that casued the scales to tip in favor of the Tiff Eagle? Who cut the cake and made the final decisión?
Randy

They were practice putting greens. 

Our board made the decision based on the recommendations of Jerry Pate, his design associate, and his brother, a golf course contractor.  They are all members.  I don't know the technical details. 

[Randy Thompson]

Bill,
Please don´t take this wrong way, its meant as constructive food for thought. The formula as I understand it is, An Architect + An Architect Associate + A Golf Course Contractor + a group of businessmen! If your going to be without greens for three months and spend a hundred plus thousand dollars, wouldn´t it be wise to have a qualified golf course consultant in the formula? He could also probably present a couple possible Superintenents candidates. One thing is for sure, that Don M always stresses on this site, it´s not so much about the grass type, as it is about how the grass type is managed. Good luck!

[Anthony_Nysse]

One thing is for sure, that Don M always stresses on this site, it´s not so much about the grass type, as it is about how the grass type is managed. Good luck!

In the panhandle of Florida, when there are different winter weather possibilities, grass type actually does make a difference. Similar to the reason that TPC is switching out in 2015. There are better varieties suited for different desires.

[Nick Cauley]

Well said Randy.  I believe it has very little to do with grass type, it is all about the management practices! 

[Mike_Young]

Bill,
You mention TifDwarf and then you mention TifEagle.  I am assuming you mean TifEagle??

TifEagle is gaining ground where for a few years the MiniVerde and Champions was dominating in the SE.  Seems there is less mutation and I hear from some supts it is often a better choice in your area.  I think Tony is right in that the avarieties do perform differently in some areas.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
Please don´t take this wrong way, its meant as constructive food for thought. The formula as I understand it is, An Architect + An Architect Associate + A Golf Course Contractor + a group of businessmen! If your going to be without greens for three months and spend a hundred plus thousand dollars, wouldn´t it be wise to have a qualified golf course consultant in the formula? He could also probably present a couple possible Superintenents candidates. One thing is for sure, that Don M always stresses on this site, it´s not so much about the grass type, as it is about how the grass type is managed. Good luck!

I'm sure that Jerry Pate will suggest candidates, just wanted to make this opening known in case other qualified folks are interested.  The USGA turf expert offered advice on our greens a couple of years ago that was largely ignored.  Nobody's excited about three months of temp greens but the changes had to be made.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
You mention TifDwarf and then you mention TifEagle.  I am assuming you mean TifEagle??

TifEagle is gaining ground where for a few years the MiniVerde and Champions was dominating in the SE.  Seems there is less mutation and I hear from some supts it is often a better choice in your area.  I think Tony is right in that the avarieties do perform differently in some areas.

Mike, we have TifDwarf, we are putting in TifEagle.  We did a two year test and the TifEagle has done very well.  A couple of local courses put in Champion, which they loved for about four seasons. 

[Paul Jones]

Bill,

Next week we start the switch from TifEagle to MiniVerde.

I was planning on coming to play Pensacola CC while we have temps 😞. Your board needs to check my schedule before making decisions next time 😊.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

Next week we start the switch from TifEagle to MiniVerde.

I was planning on coming to play Pensacola CC while we have temps 😞. Your board needs to check my schedule before making decisions next time 😊.

Yessir.   Come over in October, new greens will be grown in and open. 

[Mike_Young]

Bill,
You mention TifDwarf and then you mention TifEagle.  I am assuming you mean TifEagle??

TifEagle is gaining ground where for a few years the MiniVerde and Champions was dominating in the SE.  Seems there is less mutation and I hear from some supts it is often a better choice in your area.  I think Tony is right in that the avarieties do perform differently in some areas.

Mike, we have TifDwarf, we are putting in TifEagle.  We did a two year test and the TifEagle has done very well.  A couple of local courses put in Champion, which they loved for about four seasons. 

OK...might want to check your initial post...says you are sprigging TfDwarf.  Cheers....

[BCowan]

Bill,

   Please describe the issues you saw with the Champions.  I am just a northerner and have always loved the grass.  I found Tiff Eagle to be grainy.  I also agree with how grass is managed is very/most important.   

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
You mention TifDwarf and then you mention TifEagle.  I am assuming you mean TifEagle??

TifEagle is gaining ground where for a few years the MiniVerde and Champions was dominating in the SE.  Seems there is less mutation and I hear from some supts it is often a better choice in your area.  I think Tony is right in that the avarieties do perform differently in some areas.

Mike, we have TifDwarf, we are putting in TifEagle.  We did a two year test and the TifEagle has done very well.  A couple of local courses put in Champion, which they loved for about four seasons. 

OK...might want to check your initial post...says you are sprigging TfDwarf.  Cheers....

Change made, thx. Who knew anybody actually read this stuff. I can only blame cocktail time.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,

   Please describe the issues you saw with the Champions.  I am just a northerner and have always loved the grass.  I found Tiff Eagle to be grainy.  I also agree with how grass is managed is very/most important.   

From what supers here and one in Scottsdale have told me, Champion will become very thatchey unless intensely maintained.  I'm sure that's a complete oversimplification.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Bill,

   Please describe the issues you saw with the Champions.  I am just a northerner and have always loved the grass.  I found Tiff Eagle to be grainy.  I also agree with how grass is managed is very/most important.   

There has been a good number of issue with Champion (NO S) and Mini Verde the last few years dealing with contamination. The sprigs are not coming from the farms as "clean" as they once were. The first course with Tifeagle was planting in 1997 and still going strong.
  All of the 3 main Ultradwafts are going to need more maintenance than Tifdwaft. All have their issues. Champion just doesn't like to grow some times, MV has its own issues. If you keep the Nitrogen low and grooming/todressing high, Tifeagle is a great surface.  TPC will be going to it in 2015.

[paul cowley]

Paspalum anyone? Platinum's pretty good down here in Cabo...if you don't require stimps over 10.5 and have greens with some interest!

[Bill_McBride]

Paspalum anyone? Platinum's pretty good down here in Cabo...if you don't require stimps over 10.5 and have greens with some interest!

I loved paspalum at Forrest's Links at Las Palomas on the Sea of Cortez, the only I've played.   Fast and firm.  I think our bunch is focused on TifEagle and has already bought it.   

[Patrick_Mucci]

Hola Bill,
Were the demonstration greens in play or were they nurseries. Do you know in what way the tiff Eagle out preformed the champions and mini verde that casued the scales to tip in favor of the Tiff Eagle? Who cut the cake and made the final decisión?
Randy

They were practice putting greens. 

Our board made the decision based on the recommendations of Jerry Pate, his design associate, and his brother, a golf course contractor.  They are all members.  I don't know the technical details. 

Bill,

A good number of clubs in Southeast Florida have regrassed their fairways and greens.

I would suggest contacting them to ascertain their results.

Clubs like CC of Florida, Pine Tree and about a dozen or two clubs within 20 miles have done regrassing.

I would have source referenced their individual and cumulative results before making any decisions and pulling the trigger

[BCowan]

Bill,

   Please describe the issues you saw with the Champions.  I am just a northerner and have always loved the grass.  I found Tiff Eagle to be grainy.  I also agree with how grass is managed is very/most important.   

There has been a good number of issue with Champion (NO S) and Mini Verde the last few years dealing with contamination. The sprigs are not coming from the farms as "clean" as they once were. The first course with Tifeagle was planting in 1997 and still going strong.
  All of the 3 main Ultradwafts are going to need more maintenance than Tifdwaft. All have their issues. Champion just doesn't like to grow some times, MV has its own issues. If you keep the Nitrogen low and grooming/todressing high, Tifeagle is a great surface.  TPC will be going to it in 2015.

I'm a low Nitrogen type of a guy.  No need to grow, i am perfectly fine with rolling.  Knowing that TPC is going with Tifeagle tells me to do the opposite.  Duke went with Champions, still early but greens are great.  Mid Pines went with mini and they are good but not as good as Duke's.  That is one of the few positive things i can say for Duke's course too.  If TPC gets it wrong, no biggie, they can just redo them in a few years.  They have deep pockets.  Does WW have tifeagle?  Those greens are decent. 

[Bill_McBride]

I guess you "experts" overlooked the fact that we've already made our decision and the work of switching to TifEagle is underway. 

The purpose of this thread was to announce an opening for a new superintendent to manage the new stuff. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

I guess you "experts" overlooked the fact that we've already made our decision and the work of switching to TifEagle is underway. 

The purpose of this thread was to announce an opening for a new superintendent to manage the new stuff. 

Then why did you throw in all of the non-relevant information ?

[Bill_McBride]

I guess you "experts" overlooked the fact that we've already made our decision and the work of switching to TifEagle is underway. 

The purpose of this thread was to announce an opening for a new superintendent to manage the new stuff. 

Then why did you throw in all of the non-relevant information ?

Background.

[Steve Okula]

Hola Bill,
Were the demonstration greens in play or were they nurseries. Do you know in what way the tiff Eagle out preformed the champions and mini verde that casued the scales to tip in favor of the Tiff Eagle? Who cut the cake and made the final decisión?
Randy

They were practice putting greens. 

Our board made the decision based on the recommendations of Jerry Pate, his design associate, and his brother, a golf course contractor.  They are all members.  I don't know the technical details. 

Bill,

A good number of clubs in Southeast Florida have regrassed their fairways and greens.

I would suggest contacting them to ascertain their results.

Clubs like CC of Florida, Pine Tree and about a dozen or two clubs within 20 miles have done regrassing.

I would have source referenced their individual and cumulative results before making any decisions and pulling the trigger

Like Mr. Nysse correctly stated earlier in the thread, Pensacola is a different climate than southeast Florida, there is a colder winter. What works in Miami won’t necessarily work in the panhandle.

[Tom_Doak]

Bill:

Good luck on finding the right man.

I do think your club got the sequence of decisions in the wrong order.  If I was rebuilding a set of greens, I would want the guy who was going to maintain them on board with the choice -- instead of interviewing guys after a decision on the grass type has already been made by the board.

I get a little queasy whenever this board discusses the relative merits of different grass cultivars.  I have seen exceptional results with Champion [Yeamans Hall and Mid Ocean] and Mini Verde [Streamsong and Indian Creek].  It's entirely possible that TifEagle is better suited to the Panhandle, I have no idea.  But, often, guys' opinions here are based on a very limited experience with the different choices, and one good experience with one or the other.  Plus, there are salesmen galore in the grass business and I am never quite certain whether an independent expert is really in bed with one supplier -- it happens way more often than you think.

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