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Rob Curtiss

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Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« on: May 14, 2014, 07:16:56 PM »
Being from Florida- I have noticed that a lot of the golf courses down here advertise or at least mention "water on all 18 holes" or "water on x number of holes". It is a hazard that I can not stand because one can lose several balls in a single round if your game is off.

My question is " is there any great or even really good courses that have water hazards on the majority of the holes.

I looked quickly at a bunch of the GD ranked top courses and realized that PV, Cypress, Augusta and others have some water hazards but not on the majority of the holes.

I know Augusta has Amen Corner and water on 15 and 16 , but that isnt the majority of holes.

I would assume we could consider TPC Sawgrass as having a majority of its holes with water hazards , but do we classify that is great.

Is this something that is only in Florida ?

I would love to know if anyone knows of any GREAT courses that have water hazards on a majority of its holes...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 07:27:17 PM by Rob Curtiss »

Nigel Islam

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 07:35:28 PM »
Pebble Beach and Southern Hills. I totally get what you are saying though.

Jaeger Kovich

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 07:36:01 PM »
I would say Augusta DOES have a lot of water.

Yale comes to mind as having a lot of red stakes for a classic course. It was built out of a swamp so it shouldn't be that surprising. 1,2,3,4,6,9,14,17. I'm sure there will be more that comes to me later.

BCowan

Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 07:43:23 PM »
Depends on the hazard.  Classic courses have creeks that come into play on a few holes, more for higher handicaps.  The creek maybe on 8 holes, but doesn't really come into play.  Ponds I hate! 

Matt Waidmann

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 06:52:05 AM »
Depends on your definition of GREAT courses, but Caledonia has water hazards in play on about 7 holes.  True Blue has 9-10 holes.  It's not Florida, but it's close.  I think the courses in the South tend to have more water in their designs because it is simply more prevalent down there.  On a given tract of land near Myrtle Beach there might be swamps, creeks, ponds, and the intracoastal waterway.  On a tract here in Cincinnati, you might be lucky to get a creek or perhaps a pond or two, but anything more than that and you have struck gold in this area.

David Whitmer

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2014, 07:39:39 AM »
Muirfield Village. One could find a lateral or water hazard on holes #2, #3, #5, #6, #9, #11, #12, #14, #16, and #18.

Oak Hill has Allen's Creek on, I think, eight of the holes. Plus a pond next to the 15th green.

Tim Martin

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2014, 07:41:22 AM »
There is no shortage of water on Kiawah Ocean.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 07:43:35 AM »
Last I looked, Pine Valley wasn't in Florida.

But Seminole was.

Baltusrol Lower ?

NGLA ?

Matt Waidmann

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2014, 12:39:09 PM »
I forgot about Kebo Valley, which has water hazards on 7 holes I believe.

Tom_Doak

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 06:00:21 AM »
Oak Hill has Allen's Creek on, I think, eight of the holes. Plus a pond next to the 15th green.

Yes it does ... and the day they dug the pond they gave up on it being a "great" course.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 06:17:01 AM »
Which links course has the most?

Carnoustie has the two burns winding through quite a few holes.... Any others compare?

Quite a few links courses with ponds lying in natural dune slacks but can't think of too many with two or more ponds...

Kevin_D

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 07:01:16 AM »
Well, Merion has a creek that comes into play on a few holes, not to mention OB, which is worse than water from a recovery standpoint.

Kevin_D

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 07:19:58 AM »
Thinking a little more about this, one obvious example is Streamsong Red. There is water all over the course, and requires a fair amount of precision (or at least, not a big miss) with the driver.

Another, if you want to call it "great" (hey, Doak gave himself an 8 in the confidential guide!) is my other home course, Stonewall Old.  Places water comes into play:
- approach on #1
- drive on #2
- drive and/or 2nd shot on #3
- drive and approach (forced carry) on #4
- creek right of green on par 3 #5
- creek comes into play on drive on #6, unless playing short right, and runs along fairway/green entire hole
- forced carry over wasteland that I think is a hazard on par 3 #7
- pond to left of fairway on #8 (this is way left of where you should be driving)
- must carry same pond for par  3 #9

But then, the back 9 has no water at all. 

That said, it's a lot of water - though none is a stupid, water on both sides with a tiny landing area hole. You can easily avoid it if you are sensible and have some degree of accuracy, though you may not like what you are left with if you play too safe.  So I like the use of water on the front 9, even though it bites me more often than not.

Incidentally, I have a very similar feeling about Doral Blue.  There's a ton of water, but with a couple of exceptions, it's fairly easily avoided.

I think water, like all hazards and features, is neither good nor bad.  It all depends how it is applied, what your options are to avoid it, and how it fits into the course.

jeffwarne

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 07:39:14 AM »


My question is " is there any great or even really good courses that have water hazards on the majority of the holes.


I know Augusta has Amen Corner and water on 15 and 16 , but that isnt the majority of holes.



I would love to know if anyone knows of any GREAT courses that have water hazards on a majority of its holes...

If we're saying Augusta, which has water on 5 holes, doesn't qualify as having  a "LOT" of water, then there aren't many great courses with water on a "lot of holes"

Wasn't a huge fan of Kiawah or TPC for that reason

Long Cove has 13 holes with water, and it's pretty darn good.
Spoke to the Longtime pro and my former boss there Bob Patton yesterday.
a 15 (barely) year old shot 65 there Monday in local US Open qualifying (tipped out using many new back tees that I haven't even seen)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Andy Troeger

Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2014, 08:48:02 AM »
I really like the following courses that have a lot of water hazards, so they are "great" for me, but may not be for everyone here:

Pete Dye GC, Victoria National, Blackwolf Run River, TPC Sawgrass, Muirfield Village. The first three have a lot of natural water hazards, which I do think makes a difference. TPC Sawgrass in some sense had a lot of natural water being a swamp, but obviously isn't natural in the presentation. I like Muirfield because many of the water features are very strategic--especially #5, 11, and 14. I was not a fan of the new pond on #16--it had enough water holes before that change.

Matt Bielawa

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2014, 09:24:12 AM »
Oak Hill has Allen's Creek on, I think, eight of the holes. Plus a pond next to the 15th green.

Yes it does ... and the day they dug the pond they gave up on it being a "great" course.

Are you suggesting that a course with one dud of a hole cannot be a "great" course?  Or are you just saying that the pond on 15 was the first step in deterioration?

Andrew Buck

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Re: Great Courses with a lot of water hazards
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2014, 09:30:49 AM »
Olympia Fields North has water come into play on the last 7 holes (is it actually the creek, or just brush left of 13?) and 8 - 9 times overall. 

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