[Jason Thurman]

We had a discussion at my club yesterday. About 16 people were in the room, among them a golf pro, a GM, a superintendent, two men who have served as club president, a contractor, an Australian woman, a mid-handicap woman, a chronically sunburned man, and a guy wearing purple pants.

During the discussion, we talked about pin placements. Our course is 91 years old and our Golden Age greens are largely intact. They have huge slopes and small shelves for pins, and run at modern speeds. As a result, we often cut the hole within three or four paces of the edges of greens, as we have large areas of unpinnable slopes in the interior of a few of our greens.

The golf pro made a comment to the superintendent regarding our 9th hole (470 yard par 4 with a huge, heavily contoured green with a severe fallaway on the left side):

"I'm just passing along something I've heard. On number 9, with the pin back left... well it's really hard. Some of the guys get upset because if they hit a good drive, it leaves them maybe 170 or 180 yards out. They can't go at that pin though. It's hard to get a ball back there and you can't really get it close. What if it's the last hole of your match that started on 10 and you're one-down and you need to make a birdie? Is that pin really fair? I mean if you land it on the downslope you can't stop it before it rolls off the back edge."

Roughly 15 other people were in the room. Guess the reaction.

[Michael Moore]

The guy wearing purple pants, in the men's grill, with a six iron.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here's my reaction:

1. I don't hit 300y drives and have 170y in on a 470y hole.

2. Play the course as you find it.

3. If you don't like the hole as it is, play it forward.

[John Kavanaugh]

You watched Love Actually for the 17th time and threw up over the thought that a woman was in the room.

[Jason Thurman]

We're only talking about 2014 right? Because I've watched Love Actually far fewer than 17 times in 2014. Barely half that.

[Adam Clayman]

Only you, and the chronically sunburned guy, saw the ridiculousness of the pro's sentiment. Everyone else agreed with him wholeheartedly. ?

[PCCraig]

Consensus was to flatten the green...

[Carl Nichols]

At least a few people suggested turning it into a par 5.

[Neil Davis]

If you tell them to slow down the speed of the greens they'll look at you like you walked in the room naked.

[Matt Bielawa]

If we make it a 15 inch hole, it'll be ok.

[Kevin Lynch]

I hope the reaction was "suck it up and don't put yourself in that position" along with a "quit with the self-serving advice, Pro."

A) Generally, try not to play matches starting on 10 which will leave a stroke hole for the final hole

B) I'm assuming A is his real beef because he "needs to make a birdie" in his mind.  I'd assume making a 4 on a 470 yard par 4 (with a tough pin) is usually going to win the hole.  But if he's giving a stroke, a 4 won't beat a 5.  Which leads me to believe that this is a low handicap gripe.  I'd bet the other "mortals" gave him a quizzical look and said "how many other guys are thinking birdie on that hole?"

C). Again, if that's the case, suck it up.  My old course used to finish w a low handicap hole (220 par 3).  I often gave a stroke and never played it well enough to ever count on winning it.  So I simply adjusted my mindset to a 17 hole match and tried like hell to ensure I was up (or done) before I sniffed the 18th tee.

[Ben Hollerbach]

The chronically sunburned man and the man in purple pants agreed with the pro's statement. The contractor suggested that the green be changed and tried to get the Super to agree with him. The GM didn't say anything but looked concerned. Everyone else didn't see it as a problem. as they are hitting in such a long club into the green they land the ball short of the downslope and use it to run the ball back to the flag. Its only the longer hitters that think a ball landing on the green should stay are the ones with any issues.

[Nigel Islam]

I think the pin was back left the day I played your course. As I remember the hole is a dogleg right with a challenging fairway to hit. I don't really remember that green as being overly severe compared to others on the course. Was there a hogsback to the back left?  I got very lucky to avoid a double bogey.

I really hope that the reaction was gridlock so that they don't change the hole at all. I think your course needs a guy with a chainsaw on a pole and it would be a legitimate candidate for the "Best in State" list . (If it isn't already)

[Jud_T]

My reaction is I want to play a match with you starting on 10 so I can see the look on your face when I get up and down from 40 yards short to close you out!

[JC Jones]

My reaction is I want to play a match with you starting on 10 so I can see the look on your face when I get up and down from 40 yards short to close you out!

Will you be using a unicorn as a golf cart?

[Jud_T]

My reaction is I want to play a match with you starting on 10 so I can see the look on your face when I get up and down from 40 yards short to close you out!

Will you be using a unicorn as a golf cart?

No, but I'll be blasting 'Fear of a Black Planet' so loudly that the pro's balls will knock like a '70s clackers toy in the house.

[Jason Thurman]

Nigel, you remember the hole well. You're right that the green isn't any more or less severe than most of the others on the course (they all have plenty of slope, except for 12). it probably has more internal contour than any other green on the course with the exception of 15 and possibly 1, though it doesn't have nearly the sheer slope that 2, 3, 6, 7, 13 (which had a waterfall running from back to front when you played thanks to its fierce pitch), or 14 have. It's basically a soft square, slightly narrower in the front than the back, with the front left and back right corners built up several feet. There's essentially a halfpipe that runs from front right to back left. While it's possible to go after a back left pin, you almost have to play a draw that lands front right and releases up the back right slope and then feeds left toward the hole. The pushed up front left section means any ball online with the pin will bound forward off the downslope of that section and go long. Frankly, trying to get close to a back left pin is stupid.

The pro also mentioned that it's really hard to go after a back pin on 10, as the last half of the green slopes away from the fairway and makes it easy to run through the green. And it's really hard to two-putt to a back pin on 10 if you hit the front part of the green. He insisted he was just the messenger, but that it seems a little unfair to some if they hit the green only to face a 30 yard putt over a ridge.

Both comments got the same reaction.

Jud, ride your unicorn down to Cincinnati sometime soon and we'll go off on 10. Winner of each hole picks the song for the next one.

[Adam Clayman]

So? What was the reaction?

[Mark McKeever]

Chronically sunburned man jumps all over it and tells the entire room that it's a non issue if you are playing the correct tees.

Mark

[Dan Kelly]

The guy wearing purple pants, in the men's grill, with a six iron.

LOL.

That's gotta be Prof. Plum!

[Dan Kelly]

Guess the reaction.

I only wish Gabby Johnson had been there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke5Mr5eCF2U

I'm guessing he wasn't.

[Bill Seitz]

We had a discussion at my club yesterday. About 16 people were in the room, among them a golf pro, a GM, a superintendent, two men who have served as club president, a contractor, an Australian woman, a mid-handicap woman, a chronically sunburned man, and a guy wearing purple pants.

What was Mark Smolens doing in Ohio?

My reaction would have been something like "On a 470 yard par four, you're probably not making birdie no matter where the pin is."  And if if you're hitting the ball 300 yards off the tee, then from 180 you're probably hitting no more than 7-iron in.  Why wouldn't someone be able to go at a pin with a 7-iron? 

[John Connolly]

In order:

GM: Waited to see what the 2 past presidents said and tried to give a delicate response so as to not insult any member;
Supt: Bit a hole through his bottom lip;
Past Presidents: Hammered as this meeting brought back bad memories;
Contractor: Supports a total renovation of course and wondering how he's going to afford 2 kids in college;
Aussie woman: If older, spent the time farting and not acknowledging. If younger, drunk with the 2 past Presidents.
Mid Hdcp Woman: To hell with the greens, can we put more petunias around the tees and on fringe of greens:
Sunburned Guy: Suggests putting a pond in the middle of the fairway, about 180-340 yards off the tee.
Purple Pants Guy: Who cares? He's wearing purple pants.

holy crap is that funny.

[Nigel Islam]

In order:

GM: Waited to see what the 2 past presidents said and tried to give a delicate response so as to not insult any member;
Supt: Bit a hole through his bottom lip;
Past Presidents: Hammered as this meeting brought back bad memories;
Contractor: Supports a total renovation of course and wondering how he's going to afford 2 kids in college;
Aussie woman: If older, spent the time farting and not acknowledging. If younger, drunk with the 2 past Presidents.
Mid Hdcp Woman: To hell with the greens, can we put more petunias around the tees and on fringe of greens:
Sunburned Guy: Suggests putting a pond in the middle of the fairway, about 180-340 yards off the tee.
Purple Pants Guy: Who cares? He's wearing purple pants.

You forgot the part about the impending assessment

[Morgan Clawson]

Jason -

My guess is that they were sympathetic to the pro's plight.

Send me those purple pants.  I'll drop them off at Prince's office.  He's just a couple of miles down the road from me.

D Cronan/JC/Jud -

Excellent posts 

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