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Howard Riefs

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Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« on: May 08, 2014, 01:32:25 PM »
Mssr Colton presents an interesting grow the game idea worthy of discussion...

http://www.wegoblogger31.com/2014/05/hackgolf-my-idea-for-growing-game.html
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"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Jud_T

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Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2014, 01:54:33 PM »
I like the 529 idea.  One immediate concern-  reporting taxable income.  Kind of tough to show $2000 savings for college in the 529 and only $1500 of reported income.  So now a kid who was used to taking home $80 is taking home $40-  20 to uncle Sam, and 20 to the 529.  Just saying.
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2014, 02:13:46 PM »
Big fan of Jim's, not at all a fan of top down ideas to grow the game. I don't see this as top down, but I will say, I don't see anything caddy related having much impact on the game, on a larger scale. I do see it having a significant impact on a smaller scale, so I'd certainly support it.

The logo's solid, too, coming from someone who sees new designs/logos every day...
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2014, 02:34:27 PM »
a step in the right direction, and we are attempting an initiative similar to the kids' caddie programs in Chicago, albeit on a much smaller, slower growing scale.

The problem with 529 income is it's the first place financial aid police look to deny financial aid.
The system badly punishes those who actually save for college appropriately, and rewards those who don't.

I'd say go with the caddie ideas, but allow them to continue to operate as they have been because a kid can't build a 529 without reporting income and would be punished twice
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2014, 03:24:22 PM »
All in favor of more caddying opportunities. The problem I see is without cutting in the pro/gm/caddiemaster there's no incentive for the people who have to manage the program at each course.

One ie. might be a Flat $60 fee with a 20-20-20 split. The kid ends up earning $10/hr. $5/hr to put in his pocket and 5 for the 529. And $20 to the course/pro/gm/caddiemaster. Nobody pays any tax which will likely only fly in Chicago.
The problem I see is that a kid without golf knowledge is not worth the $60. So it's up to the altruism of the member to want this and want it badly.   

Quality caddie programs are difficult to achieve. Not impossible, but without the finical incentive to it's operator, it's going to be a very tough sell.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2014, 04:19:52 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on May 08, 2014, 02:34:27 PM
The problem with 529 income is it's the first place financial aid police look to deny financial aid.
The system badly punishes those who actually save for college appropriately, and rewards those who don't.

Welcome to the 21st century, Jeff. What's up is down and down is up, it's all good, just ask the Ministry of Truth...
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2014, 05:03:51 PM »
Why would a young person who wants recreation want to engage in a "sport" where everyone is riding around in a cart?

The hole can stay the same size, but the courses have to get shorter (because the ball has been rolled back) like they used to be so that it tends to be more counter productive to ride a cart between the much shorter shots.

"Walk less and play more golf."
Alister MacKenzie
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"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

BCowan

Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2014, 10:23:05 PM »
Having worked as a caddie at numerous courses and bagrooms in my younger days.  I'd say that new caddie programs are somewhat unrealistic.  Anyway, one bagroom job I had (Cart boy) I was allowed practice and playing privileges (everyday at pro/starters discretion).  The Asst pro's gave lesson's to other bagroom guys who hadn't come from a golf background.  With the way things are now, there is no reason why board members at their private clubs can't emulate this approach.  This is normal protocol in Florida, a job perk.  Some kids start working a bagroom job for the tips, and some started the game due to co-workers playing.  They are around people that know the game and they learn the game properly.  Also I worked a bagroom job for these perks and no tips.  I've worked non tipping and tipping clubs in my younger days. 

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Dan_Callahan

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Re: Hack Golf, growing the game and Caddie529
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 12:52:34 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on May 08, 2014, 02:34:27 PM

The problem with 529 income is it's the first place financial aid police look to deny financial aid.
The system badly punishes those who actually save for college appropriately, and rewards those who don't.


It's really not all that punitive.

"529 Plans owned by the student: Beginning with the 2009-2010 school year, student- and UGMA/UTMA-owned 529 accounts are to be reported as parental assets, if the student files the FAFSA as a dependent and has to include parent assets and income. This treatment confers a financial aid benefit as the parental rate of 5.64% is considerably less prejudicial than the 20% rate on non-529 assets owned by the student."
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