Primo Maxx

[Joel_Stewart]

A plant growth regulator that apparently when not applied correctly can be very harmful.

Thoughts.

[Mike_Young]

did not know that....where and when?

[Pete_Pittock]

TPC Sawgrass   read Shackelford. I'd post a link, but.....

[Greg Chambers]

Any chemical when not applied correctly can be very harmful.  That's why they put labels on the packaging.

[Pete_Pittock]

in the northwest a few years ago there were problems with a specific growth regulator and a specific bent grass at more than one course. Correct application, bad side effects. Can't remember the product, but the greens were seeded in the late 90s and the regualator about 5-7 years ago. 

[Ian Larson]

I call bullshit. Finchem blamed the weather today. And why would you be going aggressive with a plant growth regulator during a cold winter spell and the grass is growing at it's slowest rate? Roots? I'd push roots in many other ways before Primo during a cold winter. Primo is safe. I've seen fragile poa greens overdosed on Primo and all that was seen was some yellowing on the leaf tips because it's a giberillic acid inhibitor in the meristem. I've never not once in 18 years seen Primo do that kind of damage to greens.

[Anthony_Nysse]

I call bullshit. Finchem blamed the weather today. And why would you be going aggressive with a plant growth regulator during a cold winter spell and the grass is growing at it's slowest rate? Roots? I'd push roots in many other ways before Primo during a cold winter. Primo is safe. I've seen fragile poa greens overdosed on Primo and all that was seen was some yellowing on the leaf tips because it's a giberillic acid inhibitor in the meristem. I've never not once in 18 years seen Primo do that kind of damage to greens.

Well stated.

[Mike_Young]

read carefully what the article said:  "While not officially a suspect, a chemical of interest has been named and authorities would simply like to speak to the person who packaged the batch."  One could take this to mean the company that packaged the batch of chemicals  applied OR it could mean the chem tech had a dirty tank or perhaps the wrong chemical in a tank.  
Remember a few years back when a brush was blamed for a screw up on part of a green at the PGA Championship at ATL ATH Club? It got nasty .. It's not good business to be spouting off names of chemicals as the culprit for these types of things...it can get nasty...

[Tom Bacsanyi]

Pfffft.  Primo is a staple product in the turf world.  Wild rumor says that someone botched the mix on a spray and threw waaaaay to much of something. 

[Randy Thompson]

Can anybody tell me that the greens took a sudden nose dive after applying this chemical where serious injury was noted.If so, then the plants effected had to be already near or on their death bed. How cold were the low temps during the winter in the Jacksonville area? I still think, the greens were to small for the traffic and prolonged water logged conditions! Throw in a little shade and bingo! I also think the USGA recomendation for sand are on the fine side. Everytime I am forced into using a coarser sand then recommended by the USGA, i get better long term better results, drainage is everything!

[Dane Hawker]

Primo is the greatest product on the planet. I really hope it doesn't get a bad name through hearsay.

[Steve Okula]

Primo is the greatest product on the planet. I really hope it doesn't get a bad name through hearsay.

Indeed. But PM has been used regularly and successfully by thousands of superintendents since the '90's and it's not going to lose favor due to a single incident.

The full recommended rate on the label for Primo Maxx is 2 litres/hectare/month, but nobody puts that much out all at once on greens. It's always applied at a fraction of that rate weekly or bi-weekly.

A few years ago I was away from my course for a couple of weeks in July and there was an accidental over-application of Primo on bentgrass/Poa greens. Normally, I like to do about 400ml/ha every 10 days. During the two-week period of my absence, Primo went out at 2.0 litres/ha, twice.

The greens didin't die, (thank you, God) but there was a noticeable thinning of the turf in some of the weaker areas on the putting surface. I stopped PM applications after that for aboput 6 weeks, but it wasn't until the next spring that the greens were truly normal again.

I could understand it if PM were a contributing factor to whatever is ailing TPC.

[Randy Thompson]

Primo is the greatest product on the planet. I really hope it doesn't get a bad name through hearsay.

Indeed. But PM has been used regularly and successfully by thousands of superintendents since the '90's and it's not going to lose favor due to a single incident.

The full recommended rate on the label for Primo Maxx is 2 litres/hectare/month, but nobody puts that much out all at once on greens. It's always applied at a fraction of that rate weekly or bi-weekly.

A few years ago I was away from my course for a couple of weeks in July and there was an accidental over-application of Primo on bentgrass/Poa greens. Normally, I like to do about 400ml/ha every 10 days. During the two-week period of my absence, Primo went out at 2.0 litres/ha, twice.

The greens didin't die, (thank you, God) but there was a noticeable thinning of the turf in some of the weaker areas on the putting surface. I stopped PM applications after that for aboput 6 weeks, but it wasn't until the next spring that the greens were truly normal again.

I could understand it if PM were a contributing factor to whatever is ailing TPC.

Steve,
Was the poa more effected than the bent? I think it is different with Bermuda, not so fragil as the poa but under certain unfavorable conditions, weak plants are just that..weak plants and more susceptible to everything.

[Steve Okula]

Primo is the greatest product on the planet. I really hope it doesn't get a bad name through hearsay.

Indeed. But PM has been used regularly and successfully by thousands of superintendents since the '90's and it's not going to lose favor due to a single incident.

The full recommended rate on the label for Primo Maxx is 2 litres/hectare/month, but nobody puts that much out all at once on greens. It's always applied at a fraction of that rate weekly or bi-weekly.

A few years ago I was away from my course for a couple of weeks in July and there was an accidental over-application of Primo on bentgrass/Poa greens. Normally, I like to do about 400ml/ha every 10 days. During the two-week period of my absence, Primo went out at 2.0 litres/ha, twice.

The greens didin't die, (thank you, God) but there was a noticeable thinning of the turf in some of the weaker areas on the putting surface. I stopped PM applications after that for aboput 6 weeks, but it wasn't until the next spring that the greens were truly normal again.

I could understand it if PM were a contributing factor to whatever is ailing TPC.

Steve,
Was the poa more effected than the bent? I think it is different with Bermuda, not so fragil as the poa but under certain unfavorable conditions, weak plants are just that..weak plants and more susceptible to everything.

Randy,

I can't say the Poa was more affected than the bentgrass. From memory, it might have even been the bentgrass more affected.

Conventional wisdom holds that PM has a tendency to yellow the Poa, and I always put a little nitrogen and iron in the tank with the PM to allow for that, but in fact after 12 years of steady PM use, I only saw Poa yellow once, and that was when we were spraying it on fairways (also with N and Fe) and some was overlapped into the roughs. The Poa in the fairways was fine, it only went off-color in the roughs. Perhaps it has something to do with height of cut - it needs more research.

[Steve Okula]

Also, I should add, it depends on the formulation. I've had the active ingredient in PM, trinexapac-ethyl, in a soluble powder form that used to be sold in France under the name of Spatio. It was 25% active ingredient, and gentle as talcum powder.

We had an old Hardee sparayer mounted on a John Deere Pro-Gator that we used to spray greens (the greens are too big and labor too expensive for a spray-hawk). Occasionally, if the operator wasn't careful, it was possible to bump the end of the boom against a mound or a tree while turning around off the green. That would knock off a nozzle and the sprayer would track across the green dumping the product out at, I don't know, 10-20 times the normal rate out of that one aperture.

With the powderd Spatio, the result would be a dark green streak that lasted for a good couple of months, then cleared up. But with Primo Maxx liquid, the same accident results in a dead stripe that lasts forever, like an oil spill or something.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Primo is considered a safe product for turf, however I have heard of a few issues with it in the past. It can react with certain fertilizers containing Giberillic Acids (which Primo inhibits) and cause the turf to do weird things, ultimately ending in death. It's rare, but has happened.

Any chemical will not work as expected if misapplied - I have seen Tenacity (with kills bentgrass) accidentally sprayed on greens turf and the  turf ultimately survived, but also seen even the safest chemicals kill turf when misapplied. Plant heath can play a huge fact in the outcome also - obviously the healthier the plant, the better the chance of it surviving. We will never know the exact issue unless someone from the club specifically states it.

[Joel_Stewart]

This report turned out to be false thanks to crack reporting at the Golf Channel.  The cause of the problem is not known and in typical PGA tour politics may never be known.

[Dane Hawker]

Hope Syngentas lawyers fire some bullets. Primo is a great product and its very inexpensive for what it does.

[Dane Hawker]

From Superintendent magazine on facebook

PGR NOT TO BLAME AT TPC SAWGRASS, EXPERTS SAY

According to GolfChannel.com stories posted May 5 and May 6, a plant growth regulator is to blame for all the ills of the greens at TPC Sawgrass in Ponte Vedra Beach, Fla., site of this week's Players Championships. But sources tell Superintendent magazine that there's no way the PGR in question could have caused damage to the greens.
“Although PGA Tour officials have declined to reveal what the ‘product’ was that damaged the greens, multiple sources told GolfChannel.com that it was Primo Maxx, a plant growth regulator that aids in root development,” read the May 5 story. “According to sources, the agronomy staff used the regulator on half of a practice putting green on the ‘player’s’ portion of the range and not the other half. The half with the Primo Maxx was damaged while the other half without was not.”
The May 6 story reads in part: “The issue was complicated this year by the misapplication of Primo Maxx.”
Turf professionals contacted across the country said it’s highly unlikely Primo Maxx, which is considered extremely safe to plants, caused the predicament.
Superintendent magazine contacted Syngenta for a response to Golf Channel’s assertions.
“We can’t speculate on the conditions of the course related to weather, environment, products or operations. However, our products have been successfully researched and used by golf course professionals for decades,” wrote Ann Bryan, manager of external communications for Syngenta, in an email.
According to the Syngenta website, Primo Maxx “targets the part of the plant which inhibits vertical growth while enabling rich colour, lateral stems and root mass development.”
One agronomist, speaking off the record, said it is impossible for Primo Maxx to damage turf since the plants will not uptake an excessive amount of the product.
— Anthony Pioppi/Senior Writer

[John McCarthy]

I am not a turf guy...and almost wholly ignorant on the subject. 

What does this product do?  I assume it makes grass grow slower so it does not overextend itself.  And I also have a million other turf questions but this will have to do for now.

[Steven Blake]

I have used primo maxx a lot on cool season grass in both colder and hot weather with absolutely no sides affects. Most university studies show that primo has been proven to enhance overall plant health.  

Admittedly I am not an expert on warm season grass but I agree with Ian and Mr. Nysse. Complete bull!

Steven Blake
Head Greenkeeper
Ridgeway CC

[Steve Okula]

I am not a turf guy...and almost wholly ignorant on the subject. 

What does this product do?  I assume it makes grass grow slower so it does not overextend itself.  And I also have a million other turf questions but this will have to do for now.

John,

Primo Maxx, active ingredient trinexapac-ethyl, inhibits cell elongation which reduces the vertical growth of the grass leaves, resulting in a denser turf that requires less mowing. In the case of putting greens, with PM you can lower heights of cut with less stress on the plant which can mean increased green speeds. A beneficial side-effect of PM is greater root growth.

PM requires a consistent, long term, program of applications to be effective, a single treatment won't give you any perceptible results.

It is considered very safe in most applications. However, the label does warn against mixing PM with certain fungicides, which could damage plants.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  It's extremely rare that in this type of turf damage there is only ONE answer to the question.  IF, TPC listed all the applications made to greens within two weeks of the damage being visable I think it would be clear that there are so many programs going on that it could be nearly anything.  The greens in question are 4, 11 & 12, it doesn't even make sense that they would have recieved an application from the same tank of mixed material.  4 is on the other side of the property.  11 & 12 being on the same tank of material does make sense but what about the other greens that would have been sprayed with them.  Most tanks of material for green will cover at least 2 acres minimum.  At TPC they are likely using a larger tank of material and then using a spray hawk (walking spray boom).  In this case the larger tank could be calabrated to treat 5 or 6 acres of greens.  Why only three greens damaged?  it is a tough situation to figure out. 

  Maybe it has more to do with following a programed (calendar) approach for preparations leading into a huge event.  Probably a well thought out, time tested and historically proven plan that sets the course up in great condition for the tournament year after year.   Then, ooops, you get a streatch of weather that throws a monkey wrench in and the grass responds to the program in an unexpected way.  Growing grass is all about two things:  Science and Art.  Science dictates the program / Art is the careful application of the program considering the variables of dealing with Mother Nature.  You can't be perfect all the time and some things are unavoidable but the hardest thing for a high profile, big budget, big stage place to do is "nothing".  Sometimes "nothing" is exactly what is needed or as I tell my Assistants the first rule is "do no harm".  Yes the programs are designed ot deliver world class conditions but in this case the situation demanded a different program.