[Ryan Coles]

I know its only a bit of fun, but they've made some real howlers in the latest list. RCP members, its probably best you don't read the comments..........

Which list/ranking is the definitive or at least most accurate?

[David_Tepper]

"they've made some real howlers in the latest list"

Ryan -

What do you think are the 3 or 4 picks that are howling the loudest?

DT

[Ryan Coles]

I don't know where to begin.

Inclusion of The Belfry. At the expense of the likes of Brora, Ladybank, St
Andrews New, Moray (I could go on).

The European ahead of Kingsbarns. Castle Stuart is a lowly 55th.

Trump Aberdeen ahead of Dormoch.

Skibo Castle as high as 24th?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I haven't seen the list yet but the Golf World rankings were always the oldest and most reliable. Most of what Ryan identified doesn't surprise me but the big moves for Castle Stuart and Skibo do seem a little strange. Out of personal interest, where are Portmarnock and Carne?

[Thomas Dai]

I wonder which courses advertise in Golf World?
atb

[Tom_Doak]

I don't know why anyone bothers with rankings of the best courses in Britain & Ireland, really.  There are one or two new courses every decade which might belong in such a list, otherwise it's just a useless re-numbering of the same courses ...

[Ryan Coles]

I know its virtually impossible to split say the top 10, but they have some courses two or three echelons out in both directions.

[Ryan Coles]

I haven't seen the list yet but the Golf World rankings were always the oldest and most reliable. Most of what Ryan identified doesn't surprise me but the big moves for Castle Stuart and Skibo do seem a little strange. Out of personal interest, where are Portmarnock and Carne?

Portmarnock at 20.

Carne at 44.

Enniscrone a lowly 69th!

Other courses not in the list behind the likes of the Belfy, Lough Erne & the Grove:

Boat of Garten
Ashburnham
Saunton West
Beau Dessert
Lindrick
Parkstone
Pennard

[Ryan Coles]

I don't know why anyone bothers with rankings of the best courses in Britain & Ireland, really.  There are one or two new courses every decade which might belong in such a list, otherwise it's just a useless re-numbering of the same courses ...

Tom

Renaissance Club is 80th odd. Does it remain an ambition to build a great links in GB&I, or with the aforementioned, do you think you've already done it?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I haven't seen the list yet but the Golf World rankings were always the oldest and most reliable. Most of what Ryan identified doesn't surprise me but the big moves for Castle Stuart and Skibo do seem a little strange. Out of personal interest, where are Portmarnock and Carne?

Portmarnock at 20.

Carne at 44.

Enniscrone a lowly 69th!

Other courses not in the list behind the likes of the Belfy, Lough Erne & the Grove:

Boat of Garten
Ashburnham
Saunton West
Beau Dessert
Lindrick
Parkstone
Pennard

Thanks Ryan.

The main interest in the list for me is looking at any trends. Enniscrone may be a lowly 69 as you describe it but it is trending steadily upwards. Unfortunately I see Portmarnock trend slowly the other way in all the lists I've seen. Personally I think this generation are losing the ability to appreciate subtlety and understatement but I've tackled that before on another thread.

Surprised also to see Renaissance Club head t'other way.

Give us the bad news about Deal then, Ryan? Porthcawl?

Guess I better hunt down the magazine later in the week.

[Ryan Coles]

Not played Deal but the comments differed from those on here.

The said it 'needs' a wind to make it a class act and rather bluntly said its a solid if unspectacular links. 50th place or thereabouts.

Porthcawl was 40 odd.

[Niall C]

Ryan

Never played Skibo but a couple of years ago I took the opportunity to jump the fence, slip under the razor wire, slide by security and take a peek at the new holes. A couple of them look spectacular. Interested to know therefore whether at no.24, whether it has gone up or down ?

Niall

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ryan

Never played Skibo but a couple of years ago I took the opportunity to jump the fence, slip under the razor wire, slide by security and take a peek at the new holes. A couple of them look spectacular. Interested to know therefore whether at no.24, whether it has gone up or down ?

Niall

Skibo was 64 in 2012... Castle Stuart was 28 in 2012 so has fallen 27 places

Is RCD still the no.1?

[Niall C]

Thanks Ally

Looks like the improved ranking reflects the recent changes so mark that up as a victory for modern architecture. Don't think you can put it down to advertising as Skibo seems to go out of its way to avoid publicity.

Castle Stuart - surprised at the fall so soon after getting all the exposure at successive Scottish Opens.

Anyway, how's Donalds new purchase ? Has it miraculously leaped to No. 1 in the last couple of days ?

Niall

[Paul Gray]

Not to criticise Hankley, but better than Swinley?

Is Wentworth, complete with the changes which even the panellists describe as more Trent Jones than Colt, better than Gleneagles?

Many a knowledgeable Scottish golfer will be surprised to discover that Prestwick, Aberdeen, Castle Stuart, Cruden Bay, Skibo, Nairn, North Berwick and Troon all fall short of Loch Lomond. And Trump Balmedie is apparently better than both Carnoustie and Dornoch.

At a more local level, I'm not sure what's been happening at Ferndown but apparently it's now better than Broadstone. But then so, apparently, is Remedy Oak.

[Mark Chaplin]

Paul ten years ago Loch Lomond was as high as 6th. Anyone actually got the list?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Paul ten years ago Loch Lomond was as high as 6th. Anyone actually got the list?

Mark,

It actually peaked at 3 I believe...

I'm a bit of a sucker for this particular list I have to admit, if only because I've been following it since it started in the early 80's when it opened my eyes to all the great golf courses around GB&I that I knew little about... Along with the book "Following the Fairways"...

In many ways, they were my substitute for the World Atlas which I missed at the time...

[Frank Pont]

I don't know why anyone bothers with rankings of the best courses in Britain & Ireland, really.  There are one or two new courses every decade which might belong in such a list, otherwise it's just a useless re-numbering of the same courses ...

Isn't that true for the US as well? Its all commercially driven anyways......

[Paul Gray]

Mark,

I had a fifteen year break from golf, hence my naivety. If Loch Lomond got that high it was for the best that I stayed clear!

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised; the industry has to promote anything new in order to seem fresh. We're not yet completely out of an era which inherently implies that new is good and old is bad.

Tom mentioned that it was a pointless exercise as there are only a few courses every ten years or so which deserve a mention. If only the rankings actually reflected that.

[Greg Taylor]

I shall pick this up after work... will be interesting to read it later... may be for the wrong reasons.

I share the cynicism, especially regarding Trump Aberdeen...

Wrongly or rightly in my pre-GCA days I always thought this was the most credible list, really the only in the UK.

[Niall C]

As a matter of interest, how many of these courses/clubs paying any kind of money by way of advertising to the likes of Golf World ? I often hear that's how the ranking are formed in which case I suspect it would be a very short list and one that had a lot more courses that not many would have heard of.

Apart from Balmedie International I'm not conscious of any spending big on advertising. Am I wrong and just haven't noticed ?

Niall

[Paul Dolton]

Not to criticise Hankley, but better than Swinley?

Is Wentworth, complete with the changes which even the panellists describe as more Trent Jones than Colt, better than Gleneagles?

Many a knowledgeable Scottish golfer will be surprised to discover that Prestwick, Aberdeen, Castle Stuart, Cruden Bay, Skibo, Nairn, North Berwick and Troon all fall short of Loch Lomond. And Trump Balmedie is apparently better than both Carnoustie and Dornoch.

At a more local level, I'm not sure what's been happening at Ferndown but apparently it's now better than Broadstone. But then so, apparently, is Remedy Oak.

Paul how do you rate the thre main courses around Bournemouth. I always thought Broadstone was the best followed by Parkstone and then Ferndown.  But all my friends go for Ferndown. Also i love playing Purbeck but condition does not seem to be as good.

[Adrian_Stiff]

As a matter of interest, how many of these courses/clubs paying any kind of money by way of advertising to the likes of Golf World ? I often hear that's how the ranking are formed in which case I suspect it would be a very short list and one that had a lot more courses that not many would have heard of.

Apart from Balmedie International I'm not conscious of any spending big on advertising. Am I wrong and just haven't noticed ?

Niall

Niall - I don't think advertising has anything to do with it. We were rated for about 10 years in the top 200 (highest ever was 113) and we did not advertise. We are dropped out the 200 last time and we did advertise for about two years. It works by their raters giving a number for each course, some courses have a lot of rater's views and some don't have many or even any.
Some raters like the old traditional course, some favour links very highly, some like the new. I 'think' what happened a couple of years ago is that a few of the 'modern course supporters' dropped off or did not complete the surveys and a lot of modern courses got the chop. The panel is made up of golf course architects, photographers, journalists, etc.
Personally I think GW is the best list though I think it lost a lot of it's kudos by plumping Trump high up last time, breaking its 'it must be open two years rule'.
Financially if you make the GW top 100 it is worth about £1,000,000 on your course value, based that you can put £20 on your green fee.

[Greg Taylor]

^ Adrian, I agree about it being the best list even if I don't agree with it all...

However being on the list is worth £1m on the course value, you mean what it's worth as on going concern up for sale...?

[Adrian_Stiff]

Greg - Commercially if a course was being sold, its earnings potential is £100,000 per year more based on 5000 green fees at £20 more than the market average. So on a price earnings ratio of 10, its £1M...all very averaged figures of course, the higher up the rankings generally the more demand by golfers to want to play, but golf societys, away trips, away days are primarily aimed at the best courses. The GW top 100 GB & Ire is generally looked at the best list and the one the average joe wants to tick off.

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