Visiting Cincinnati May 2-5 - Course Recommendations (or anyone looking to play)

[JLahrman]

I second Blue Ash as I have good memories of it being a fine layout but I read here that it's become overgrown with trees and maybe the conditions are not great. I also like The Grizzly (Nicklaus, Muirhead, Morrish) at King's Island. It's certainly not Camargo but I recall it being a fine Nicklaus layout in very good shape.

How long has it been since you played the Grizzly? It may not be the Grizzly you remember anymore. It's been totally overhauled, and I'm not sure how many of the original holes remain. I believe it's 27 holes now, and a lot of them are lined VERY tightly with homes. It's actually called the "Golf Center at Kings Island" instead of the Jack Nicklaus Golf Center now, though I think the "Grizzly" name is still on the course.

Funny story, a friend of mine had just moved to the Cincinnati area for work. He grew up in London and Sao Paulo, who knows how he wound up in Ohio. Anyway, he is a huge tennis fan but was not aware of the Cincinnati Masters tournament. The last time I played the course was with him on a Sunday afternoon, the day before the tennis tournament started. At the time, the first (or maybe the 10th) hole was adjacent to some of the practice courts. We were walking down the hole and I asked him if he was going to go to the tournament that week. He looked at me blankly. I told him about the event. Still blank looks. I pointed to the practice courts and said "Do you now see Rafael Nadal and Tim Henman hitting right there?" We were probably 100 feet away from them. He stood there dumbfounded.

[John Kavanaugh]

If you want to save some money and will accept my personal guarantee of not being bored you need to play Shawnee Lookout.  It is the home of the finest uphill par three I have ever played.  A four club elevation change.  I love the place!!!

http://www.greatparks.org/golf/shawnee-lookout-golf-course

[JLahrman]

If you want to save some money and will accept my personal guarantee of not being bored you need to play Shawnee Lookout.  It is the home of the finest uphill par three I have ever played.  A four club elevation change.  I love the place!!!

http://www.greatparks.org/golf/shawnee-lookout-golf-course

I'm sure there are hillier courses someplace; I'm just not sure where. It is a unique experience, I'll say that.

[John Kavanaugh]

If you want to save some money and will accept my personal guarantee of not being bored you need to play Shawnee Lookout.  It is the home of the finest uphill par three I have ever played.  A four club elevation change.  I love the place!!!

http://www.greatparks.org/golf/shawnee-lookout-golf-course

I'm sure there are hillier courses someplace; I'm just not sure where. It is a unique experience, I'll say that.

I grew up playing the Hill course at French Lick and there is no comparison.  At Shawnee the carts should come with hiking straps as the passenger often has to shift his weight to keep the cart from tipping over.

[BHoover]

And Brian, as far as I know, Hueston Woods is still choked with trees. No tree removal program going on there.  If I make it out there, I'll bring back a report. If you do come down, give me a call and we will get a round in there together.  That is one course where you are almost guaranteed to see wildlife walking by every day.

I know that Hueston Woods probably will never go full-on with a tree removal program, but from memory, there are a few holes on the front nine that probably would do well with some aggressive tree removal (#s 2, 3, 7, 8 come to mind).  I recall the back nine being less covered with trees, but the last time I played the course was in the spring of 2000.  So I imagine that there's been a bit of tree growth in the 14 years since my last time around the course (side note, it's hard to believe that it's been almost 15 years!).

It is a fun state park course, even with all the trees.  And you're definitely right about the wildlife. 

[Criss Titschinger]

If you do Shaker Run, you might want to check on the status of the Woodlands 9. I know they had a big ash borer problem which resulted in a massive tree removal.

I played Elks Run a couple weeks ago. It's in decent shape.

I haven't been back to Indian Ridge since the old clubhouse burned down. May is usually a good time to play it. In the past, they used on-site lakes and didn't have city water. This usually becomes a problem later in the summer when they start to run low on water. in 2007, they completely lost their fairways.

Hueston Woods is still choked with trees. Usually in good shape, but a bunch of doglegs. Not the most interesting layout.

I usually tell people to hit up Stonelick Hills on the public side. Can't walk it, but it's probably the best public course in town.

Agree with comments about Lassing Pointe and Fox Run. Lassing Pointe has a great layout, but conditions have slipped in recent years. Fox Run gets downright ridiculous at holes 9, 17, and 18.

As for Shawnee Lookout, it certainly is an interesting experience.

Would love to hit it up with you this weekend, but my calendar's full. Enjoy The Queen City!

[Paul Jones]

It is not Camargo, but I liked Hyde Park (Donald Ross) - http://www.hydeparkcc.com/

It is private, but maybe they will reciprocate with your club - it is definitely worth a call from your Pro to see.

Paul

[Zack Molnar]

I grew up in Cincinnati but don't live there anymore.

They're nothing fancy, but if you have to slum it at the publics, you could do a lot worse than Sharon Woods and Blue Ash. Both are within the 275 loop, not too expensive, and worth a play.

Weatherwax has 36 pretty decent holes, but it is probably an hour from downtown Cincinnati (not sure where you are staying).

Go play Shawnee Lookout if you want to play an unbelievably hilly course. I don't think we're in the Midwest anymore Toto.

Even Miami Whitewater isn't that bad.

There might be something decent across the river in Northern Kentucky, but I don't know those courses too well at all.

I have always wondered if Shawnee Lookout has ever had  mention on this forum. I have played there a couple times over my junior tournament days and I can not remember ever playing a hillier course. But it is certainly a unique experience.

I think Hyde Park and Clovernook are your best private options after Camargo. HP has done a lot of renovation work over the past couple years and it is really coming around. Coldstream is also good, but not my favorite. Elks Run a little north of the city is good as well. If you want something closer, I second Sharon Woods. Has some great tough holes and some fun short holes. Traditions golf club in Northern KY is also one of my favorite tracks in the area.

[Jeff Shelman]

So I say this as someone who hasn't lived in Cincinnati in about 15 years, but I'm curious why Maketewah isn't mentioned in the same breath as Clovernook and Hyde Park? I haven't played Clovernook or Mak since the late 90s (I played HP about five years ago), but I thought all three were in the same ballpark.

[Richard Hetzel]

Yes, they removed a TON of ash trees at Shaker Run. Last year I scouted out the course for the Carl Spackler Open and they were taking them out all over the place. Shaker is OK, but not worth what they charge for a round.

Unless you can get access to a private Cincy has a TON of cheap, "OK" golf. Shawnee Lookout is a crazy course for sure. All of the county park system courses are DECENT. The Grizzly or Kings Island Course is very tight through the houses.

I would try Sharon Woods GC or if you dont mind too short (no par fives, and quirky) give Avon Field GC a go. I personally like the front 9 at Legendary Run, but the back 9 is pure cart golf.

The Vineyard is nice, but the the emerald ash borer really needs to get to work there too.

Lassing Pointe used to be a decent course payout wise, but conditions the past few years have been terrible. Fox Run is OK with the exception of the 17th and the 18th hole.

Heck I would go up towards Dayton and play the Nipper Campbell designed Madden, that is a fun layout, not sure on conditions. You could also play Hamilton Elks CC (Ross), nothing special but easy to get on.

I am not all that enamored with Blue Ash, just never really liked it.

Maketewah, Clovernook, Losantiville and Hyde Park CC all worth a play, as is the 9 hole Wyoming CC as well. OF course, Camargo goes without saying.

[Jon Cavalier]

Guys:

Just wanted to say thanks for the incredible response to this post. This is truly the greatest community of golfers in the world. So glad to be a member of it. Much appreciated.

[John Kavanaugh]

Guys:

Just wanted to say thanks for the incredible response to this post. This is truly the greatest community of golfers in the world. So glad to be a member of it. Much appreciated.

Where did you play?

[Tom Allen]

I too am curious about where you played and your thoughts on the course(s).

[Jon Cavalier]

I am about to disappoint you all in my answer to the last two posts, but I played precisely nowhere.  Despite the incredible recommendations from posters above and generous invitiations to play with several members, I had to turn them down when my wife got sick the night we arrived in Cincy.  Food poisoning or some damn thing.

And as a person who routinely and frequently drives north of 1000 miles round trip to play golf, I have to tell you that this was a very bitter disappointment, especially given the courses I had lined up and how much I was looking forward to meeting some GCA members.  As such, I will have to plan a solo return trip to the area very soon.

[JLahrman]

She must have had some Skyline or LaRosa's. It takes some time to build up an immunity.

[Nigel Islam]

Ah yes Skyline. The ultimate seemed like a good idea at the time!

[Mike Schott]

I second Blue Ash as I have good memories of it being a fine layout but I read here that it's become overgrown with trees and maybe the conditions are not great. I also like The Grizzly (Nicklaus, Muirhead, Morrish) at King's Island. It's certainly not Camargo but I recall it being a fine Nicklaus layout in very good shape.

How long has it been since you played the Grizzly? It may not be the Grizzly you remember anymore. It's been totally overhauled, and I'm not sure how many of the original holes remain. I believe it's 27 holes now, and a lot of them are lined VERY tightly with homes. It's actually called the "Golf Center at Kings Island" instead of the Jack Nicklaus Golf Center now, though I think the "Grizzly" name is still on the course.

Funny story, a friend of mine had just moved to the Cincinnati area for work. He grew up in London and Sao Paulo, who knows how he wound up in Ohio. Anyway, he is a huge tennis fan but was not aware of the Cincinnati Masters tournament. The last time I played the course was with him on a Sunday afternoon, the day before the tennis tournament started. At the time, the first (or maybe the 10th) hole was adjacent to some of the practice courts. We were walking down the hole and I asked him if he was going to go to the tournament that week. He looked at me blankly. I told him about the event. Still blank looks. I pointed to the practice courts and said "Do you now see Rafael Nadal and Tim Henman hitting right there?" We were probably 100 feet away from them. He stood there dumbfounded.

Sorry to be late responding. It's been 10-15 years since I played the Grizzly. Thanks for the update. A shame.

[David Whitmer]

I second Blue Ash as I have good memories of it being a fine layout but I read here that it's become overgrown with trees and maybe the conditions are not great. I also like The Grizzly (Nicklaus, Muirhead, Morrish) at King's Island. It's certainly not Camargo but I recall it being a fine Nicklaus layout in very good shape.

How long has it been since you played the Grizzly? It may not be the Grizzly you remember anymore. It's been totally overhauled, and I'm not sure how many of the original holes remain. I believe it's 27 holes now, and a lot of them are lined VERY tightly with homes. It's actually called the "Golf Center at Kings Island" instead of the Jack Nicklaus Golf Center now, though I think the "Grizzly" name is still on the course.

Funny story, a friend of mine had just moved to the Cincinnati area for work. He grew up in London and Sao Paulo, who knows how he wound up in Ohio. Anyway, he is a huge tennis fan but was not aware of the Cincinnati Masters tournament. The last time I played the course was with him on a Sunday afternoon, the day before the tennis tournament started. At the time, the first (or maybe the 10th) hole was adjacent to some of the practice courts. We were walking down the hole and I asked him if he was going to go to the tournament that week. He looked at me blankly. I told him about the event. Still blank looks. I pointed to the practice courts and said "Do you now see Rafael Nadal and Tim Henman hitting right there?" We were probably 100 feet away from them. He stood there dumbfounded.

Sorry to be late responding. It's been 10-15 years since I played the Grizzly. Thanks for the update. A shame.

One of my very best friends is the head golf pro at The Golf Center at Kings Island (The Grizzly). It's true that the facility is not nearly what it was, in all respects. It hosted a PGA event, an LPGA major, and a Senior Tour event. It was always in good shape, and it was fun to play. The problem is that the long-time owner of the facility, Carl Lindner, sold it to the city of Mason ten or fifteen years ago. The city came in and immediately sold off the driving range, and the first two holes, to a developer to build condos. Then they did away with holes #11, 12, and #13. What they are left with is a 22-hole facility with no driving range. Plus, it's clear the maintenance budget was slashed.

[JLahrman]

One of my very best friends is the head golf pro at The Golf Center at Kings Island (The Grizzly). It's true that the facility is not nearly what it was, in all respects. It hosted a PGA event, an LPGA major, and a Senior Tour event. It was always in good shape, and it was fun to play. The problem is that the long-time owner of the facility, Carl Lindner, sold it to the city of Mason ten or fifteen years ago. The city came in and immediately sold off the driving range, and the first two holes, to a developer to build condos. Then they did away with holes #11, 12, and #13. What they are left with is a 22-hole facility with no driving range. Plus, it's clear the maintenance budget was slashed.

Thanks for the update. I attended the Senior event a few times back in the early 90s. I remember one year the big news was that Arnie, Jack, and Gary Player were in the same threesome.

There are quite a few holes remaining from the original layout, but the new ones through the homes are very claustrophobic. The range they used to have was really nice, it's a shame that's no longer there. And yes, the conditions were certainly poorer the last time I played there (maybe 2006 or 2007) compared to what they once were.

[Philip Caccamise]

Don't bother with the Grizzly... it's more like a bear cub at this point. And a shaggy one at that.

Stonelick Hills is far and away the best public in town, but the owner (who designed the course as well) is also kind of crazy. Last year, he decided on a Tuesday that he no longer liked the 1st hole, and by Saturday it was completely torn up and turned into a temporary par 3.

There are a lot of very average public golf courses in Cincy. Legendary Run is held in high regard, I've probably played 400 public courses better- it's entirely mediocre. Same deal for Lassing Pointe and Elks Run. Belterra is worth the 45 minute drive. I do like Blue Ash, but it won't blow you away- just solid golf.

Next time you are there, try giving Miami Valley in Dayton a call. It's a fantastic Donald Ross and you probably can get on.

[ward peyronnin]

I don't see any discussion about private courses; what about Coldstream,  Kenwood, any others ( Camargo is not accessable)

[Josh Tarble]

Ward,
Hyde Park was the surprise of my 2014.  Absolutely fantastic course and Tim Liddy has done some really nice work on a recent mini-restoration.

Clovernook is also really fun although a bit over-treed in my opinion.  Have heard Coldstream is quite good as well.  Others can chime in on those though.

[Jason Thurman]

Hyde Park is a pretty clear first runner-up among Cincinnati's courses, after Camargo obviously. It's very good and getting better by the year. A certain friend of mine who I won't call out by name sent me some texts about his impressions of it after playing there and having a few post-round drinks, and it was one of my favorite golf course reviews ever. The best quote was when he said "The only reason the 3rd hole isn't as famous as the 7th at San Francisco is because nobody got shot on the green."

I spent a few years playing out of Clovernook. It's a very well-preserved Langford and Moreau design from 1924. Its pros and cons are both significant. The pros are that it's a marvelous routing on a difficult property with an outstanding set of greens and green surroundings and a really fun collection of half-par holes that can produce big scoring swings in a match. The cons are that it's overtreed and overwatered and a handful of the L&M bunkers have either been grassed over or completely neutered by having their grass faces lowered substantially. Still, the benefits outweigh the downsides for me by a wide margin and I would strongly recommend it to any student of architecture interested in learning more about Langford and Moreau's work.

The Kenwood courses are worth playing if you have access, but I wouldn't grovel for it or anything. I've only seen Coldstream in photos, but they convinced me not to worry about a lumber shortage in the Queen City anytime soon. Still, I'd be very excited to play it as it's probably considered the best "championship test" with architectural interest among the Cincinnati privates and the Wilson aesthetic is still very much intact aside from where trees obscure the views. Maketewah is a decent course next door to where I work. It's a somewhat-altered Ross course that has seen some routing changes over the years. Like other courses in the area, pretty overtreed with some substantial fairway narrowing. Still, a nice course with great amenities for golfing members.

Cincinnati's offerings pale in comparison to the rest of a golf rich state, but you'd have a good time on any of the courses above provided that the weather someday improves. Hyde Park is probably the class of the bunch. I'd put Coldstream and Clovernook next in some order and Maketewah and Kenwood just behind them without a lot of differentiation between those four.

[Matt Meyer]

Josh,

If you're interested in playing Moraine CC I would be happy to meet you over there. Its 40 min North of Cincy in South Dayton and IMO one of the strongest and most unique golf courses in Ohio and regularly hosts the state amateur. This would be a good opportunity to play it prior the Keith Foster restoration that will begin in mid June.

Matt
Matt@foretitle.com
614 309-4393

[Josh Tarble]

Matt,

Thanks for that...I will definitely take you up on that offer.  Our pro sends a group over there pretty regularly each season.  He's a big fan of the course and has been telling me to make it over.

Jason,
I was hoping you'd chime in on Clovernook.  I think your comment sums it up really well but you also really undersell the quality of the greens.  They are fantastic.