"2-Hour Round" Concept to be tested at Deer Run Golf Club

[J.D. Griffith]

I would like to hear how this test went, but I think they are on to something, a lot more than promoting 15 inch holes:

http://twincitiesgolf.com/2hourgolf/

[Jason Thurman]

They're onto something, but they've taken it too far. Two hours is really fast. It basically requires small playing groups and carts, and it's also more intimidating to the beginner and weaker player. Not a recipe for growing participation, if that's the objective.

Being forced to rush and clock-watch isn't any more fun than waiting on every shot. The smarter thing would be to find a practical middle-ground that emphasizes ready-golf while still allowing for some of the social interaction and leisure that makes the game special. Turning golf into a race against the clock isn't any better than the slow-moving queue that plagues so many courses today.

[jeffwarne]

it's a nice step and is simply a test.
Two hours is awfully brisk if walking but it's a good start.
Send out three hour foursomes right after the two balls.

Love how someone in the comments section of the article asked if he could go out as a single

[J.D. Griffith]

Agree on the realistic middle ground.  On their Facebook page they stated the two-some times ranged from 2:04 to 2:27.  
I think a great target would be a 2:45 - 3:00 round, dependent on various factors.

[Garland Bayley]

Don't know the Deer Run course, but they need to forget the carts. Americans need to recreate more not ride more. My fellow "weak golfer" that shot in the 90s and 100s with me could walk and play our course together in under 2 hours when it was empty in the winter, when guess what we were shooting even higher, because the ball went less far. Unfortunately he took a job in Saudi Arabia and now carries a mat and hit shots off it on the all sand course where he is.

If the ball goes less far, it will only emphasize the extra time it takes to play out of a cart. Gives us balls that go less far so we can play more golf and walk less, and hopefully break people of their unhealthy cart habits.

[Patrick_Mucci]

6.66 minutes per hole is attainable, provided that the green to tee walks are minimal and the body of the holes aren't littered with water hazards and OB.

Enter the architect, stage left.

[Tom_Doak]

6.66 minutes per hole is attainable, provided that the green to tee walks are minimal and the body of the holes aren't littered with water hazards and OB.

Enter the architect, stage left.

We did two-hour rounds on the Old, Eden, and Strathtyrum courses at St. Andrews last summer for the Hundred Hole Hike -- in a four ball and holing everything out.  But, as you say, the tee to green walks were minimal and there aren't a lot of water hazards there

Two hours is fast.  Two and a half is more reasonable.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

I think 2.5 to 3.0 hours is reasonable with easy green to tee walks and no difficult hazards.

I noticed that the Colorado Golf club looks for rounds to be under 4.5 hours.

Has the golf world accepted what we'd consider slow play ?  4.5 hours ?

Spyglass and Pebble Beach asks that the first groups out play in 4.5.

The moment you set that standard for the first group out, NO ONE behind you can play faster and rounds quickly deteriorate to 6 hours.

What's the pace of play at Pasatiempo ?

[John Kavanaugh]

Oh great, let's have mandatory twosomes so people who can not manage either their time or their marriages can be "golfers". 

Colorado Golf Club may be the most family friendly big ass tournament course I have ever had the pleasure of playing.  4.5 hours is not unreasonable for you, your wife and two children to enjoy a Sunday afternoon of golf.  Anyone who has played in a family environment understands that letting groups go through or going through groups yourself is a complete buzz kill for everyone.  If 4.5 hours is the preferred culture of CGC than accept it or move on.  As I always wonder, what else you gonna do?

My wife and I cycle avidly and enjoy the hell out of the experience.  That would all die if our performance was tied to the needs and wants of the most fit randy racers that we meet along the way.  We even have a path that abuts our property that we sometimes avoid because the culture of that time period does not fit our desires.  Instead of making everyone miserable we simply ride somewhere else or make the sacrifice of conforming to the culture of that day.  This includes slowing down for people walking their dogs.  I have yet to hear a single golfer on this site promoting slowing down so someone else can relax and enjoy the day.

[Greg Tallman]

Tom Doak,

I think 2.5 to 3.0 hours is reasonable with easy green to tee walks and no difficult hazards.

I noticed that the Colorado Golf club looks for rounds to be under 4.5 hours.

Has the golf world accepted what we'd consider slow play ?  4.5 hours ?
It is increasingly difficult to get folks around a resort facility in 4.5 or less, sad but true[/b]

Spyglass and Pebble Beach asks that the first groups out play in 4.5.
Please develop a reasonable program for asking early players to play faster than your stated maximum playing time and I will test it for you

The moment you set that standard for the first group out, NO ONE behind you can play faster and rounds quickly deteriorate to 6 hours.
Not necessarily true but close enough. Beyond asking the early groups to play at a quicker pace what can you do? And you are going to get the guys that complain that they did not sign up to play "speed golf".

What's the pace of play at Pasatiempo ?

I am not opposed to setting time limits based on tee times... 7-10:00 must play in 3:45 or better; 10-12:30 in 4 hours or better and those playing after 12:30 may take as long as 4 hours 30 minutes - problem is it would not work 

[noonan]

Why does everything have to be about attracting more golfers?

What about keeping golfers happy or getting them to play an extra round if it can be played quicker?

[Josh Tarble]

I think it's a great concept.  I looked through their site and this piece of paper was the best thing I saw.  I would love for more courses just to issue a sheet like this to every player.  It is really a lot of common sense stuff, but some golfers don't have common sense sometimes

[BHoover]

I like to play quick, but I also want to be able to ENJOY a round of golf with my friends without having to watch the clock constantly or worry about inane rules like lonly lining up putts from behind the ball, taking only 1 practice swing or measuring the distance that my cart/bag is between the green and the next tee.

If I play in less than 3 hours, great.  But if we're having a good time and not holding anyone up, who cares that a round takes longer than 4 hours?  Let me play the game without worrying about anything else.   

[John Kavanaugh]

Children are no longer taught how to take responsibility for their own happiness. They are declared winners for just showing up. This type of strict behavior modified relaxation is a byproduct of that system.

[BHoover]

Children are no longer taught how to take responsibility for their own happiness. They are declared winners for just showing up. This type of strict behavior modified relaxation is a byproduct of that system.

I have no idea how this statement is relevant to the concept of a 2-hour round of golf.  Was there something in an earlier post (which, admittedly, I have not read).

[John Kavanaugh]

Children are no longer taught how to take responsibility for their own happiness. They are declared winners for just showing up. This type of strict behavior modified relaxation is a byproduct of that system.

I have no idea how this statement is relevant to the concept of a 2-hour round of golf.  Was there something in an earlier post (which, admittedly, I have not read).

It is the idea that everyone plays golf exactly the same. No one plays any faster or slower. No winners, no losers.

[PCCraig]

I like to play fast, and as a single I've played quite a few approx. two-hour rounds. But, if you're playing with someone else, two hours is too fast and wouldn't be relaxing in the least. As long as a round doesn't take more that 4 hours (with 4 people in the group), there's no problem in my mind.

[Paul Gray]

John,

Whilst I actually have some sympathy for your position regarding responsibility and slow play, you've again baffled me with your statement that:

"....letting groups go through or going through groups yourself is a complete buzz kill for everyone."

If there's any actually reasoning, other than some imagined loss of face, involved in that thinking I'd love for you to explain it to me.

And I really have no problem with you being slow. If you want to take all day it's absolutely fine by me. Simply step aside when quicker players catch you up. I'm not sure when and where this most basic principle of golf etiquette slipped from the collective conscience but it still clearly feature in the rule book.

[Evan Louden]

I like to play quick, but I also want to be able to ENJOY a round of golf with my friends without having to watch the clock constantly or worry about inane rules like lonly lining up putts from behind the ball, taking only 1 practice swing or measuring the distance that my cart/bag is between the green and the next tee.

If I play in less than 3 hours, great.  But if we're having a good time and not holding anyone up, who cares that a round takes longer than 4 hours?  Let me play the game without worrying about anything else.   

I love the idea. Any enjoyment lost (which I don't actually think would be the case) would clearly be offset by the opportunity to play more rounds. I would much rather play a slightly rushed 2 hour round twice a week than a 5 hour slog twice a month.

The time my rounds of golf take affect not only me but my family.

~Evan

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

Whilst I actually have some sympathy for your position regarding responsibility and slow play, you've again baffled me with your statement that:

"....letting groups go through or going through groups yourself is a complete buzz kill for everyone."

If there's any actually reasoning, other than some imagined loss of face, involved in that thinking I'd love for you to explain it to me.

And I really have no problem with you being slow. If you want to take all day it's absolutely fine by me. Simply step aside when quicker players catch you up. I'm not sure when and where this most basic principle of golf etiquette slipped from the collective conscience but it still clearly feature in the rule book.

Paul,

This past weekend we had a guy drop out so were held up by a foursome of walkers.  We simply slowed down a bit knowing that we could pass them at the turn.  We we arrived at ten tee they were standing and asked us to play through.  We declined and asked if they minded if we skipped the 10th and proceeded to 11 tee.  It was a win/win situation.  I always skip a hole or hope the group behind me provides the same courtesy.  We were all members, had all played the 10th hole thousands of times and saw little value in playing it at the same time.  The beauty of this compromise is that we had the option to play the 10th at the end of the round.

[BHoover]

I like to play quick, but I also want to be able to ENJOY a round of golf with my friends without having to watch the clock constantly or worry about inane rules like lonly lining up putts from behind the ball, taking only 1 practice swing or measuring the distance that my cart/bag is between the green and the next tee.

If I play in less than 3 hours, great.  But if we're having a good time and not holding anyone up, who cares that a round takes longer than 4 hours?  Let me play the game without worrying about anything else.   

I love the idea. Any enjoyment lost (which I don't actually think would be the case) would clearly be offset by the opportunity to play more rounds. I would much rather play a slightly rushed 2 hour round twice a week than a 5 hour slog twice a month.

The time my rounds of golf take affect not only me but my family.

~Evan

I'm not saying that I don't like the idea of playing fast(er).  But I don't think 2 hours is a reasonable expectation for 18 holes unless  you are playing alone and/or riding in a cart. And I certainly don't want to have to focus on these rules rather than just playing golf.

[Paul Gray]

John,

Whilst I actually have some sympathy for your position regarding responsibility and slow play, you've again baffled me with your statement that:

"....letting groups go through or going through groups yourself is a complete buzz kill for everyone."

If there's any actually reasoning, other than some imagined loss of face, involved in that thinking I'd love for you to explain it to me.

And I really have no problem with you being slow. If you want to take all day it's absolutely fine by me. Simply step aside when quicker players catch you up. I'm not sure when and where this most basic principle of golf etiquette slipped from the collective conscience but it still clearly feature in the rule book.

Paul,

This past weekend we had a guy drop out so were held up by a foursome of walkers.  We simply slowed down a bit knowing that we could pass them at the turn.  We we arrived at ten tee they were standing and asked us to play through.  We declined and asked if they minded if we skipped the 10th and proceeded to 11 tee.  It was a win/win situation.  I always skip a hole or hope the group behind me provides the same courtesy.  We were all members, had all played the 10th hole thousands of times and saw little value in playing it at the same time.  The beauty of this compromise is that we had the option to play the 10th at the end of the round.

I'm still unsure as to where any potential buzz kill would have occurred but since you seem to have behaved impeccably (I'll assume your holding back didn't have an effect on anyone else's round) and in so doing met my own very high standards I shall consider you exonerated. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Paul,

We happen to play a very complicated high stakes game that adheres strictly to the rules of golf.  You can not reasonable play through another group while putting everything out or returning to the tee on a lost ball.  It is more equitable to skip the hole.

I also am not interested in watching someone else play a hole as I stand alongside in the rough.  In almost every instance faster players can avoid these situations without disturbing the group in front.  Get up earlier, fill out your foursome, skip a hole, slow down...playing through should be the last option.  I can not remember the last time a foursome of golfers was held up by my group.  It's always some lonely sad sack in need of attention.  We are his one shot at having an audience.

[Evan Louden]

Brian,

I can play 18 holes (walking) in 3 to 3 1/2 hours on a course with reasonable tee/green walks with out rushing at all. This is how I would prefer to play every single one of my rounds. I agree that a 2-hour round is less than ideal but I would jump at the chance to add additional 18-hole rounds before/after work because I knew they would only take two hours.

~Evan

[Paul Gray]

John,

Shame. You were doing so well.