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Michael Felton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The misperception of the short game.
« Reply #300 on: May 07, 2014, 08:18:13 PM »
Hi Jeff,

Broadie makes an adjustment based on how the entire field does putting. So if the average is -0.5 and someone is +1.5, then they would be treated as +2.0 for the week (something like that anyway). I would imagine that he could do something similar with the long game stuff and may well do so, but I'm not sure. Haven't got that far in the book yet.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The misperception of the short game.
« Reply #301 on: May 07, 2014, 08:56:36 PM »
Hi Jeff,

Broadie makes an adjustment based on how the entire field does putting. So if the average is -0.5 and someone is +1.5, then they would be treated as +2.0 for the week (something like that anyway). I would imagine that he could do something similar with the long game stuff and may well do so, but I'm not sure. Haven't got that far in the book yet.

So you're compared to others in the field-makes sense
What would happen if the best players only played the toughest courses (the 4 majors, Memorial, TPC etc.), and the lower end players only played the easiest courses?
i.e. the better players would be compared to Tiger,
and the lower end players compared to the top of the lower end
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Brent Hutto

Re: The misperception of the short game.
« Reply #302 on: May 07, 2014, 08:59:11 PM »
Jeff,

I have not read Broadie's academic papers (where he actually published his methodology and detailed results) but with no disrespect intended, surely any threat to the validity of his conclusions that we can think of is something he has already taken that into consideration. This isn't something he cobbled together to come up with numbers for this book, it's a long-standing line of research that he was engaged in before ShotLink data even existed.

So while it's possible that one or more huge, glaring flaws in these methods are rendering whole chunks of the Strokes Gained literature invalid...well, I think that is very unlikely.

You know, I was just talking about this over dinner tonight and blurted out something I hadn't thought of until that moment. Everyone in the golf world used to take about how Jack Nicklaus could hit these towering, deadly accurate 2, 3 and 4 iron approach shots that none of his peers could match. And even though his short game was reputed to be mediocre at best (relative to his contemporaries) it didn't matter because he was so dominant with a long iron in his hand.

Then along comes Tiger Woods. At his most dominant, nobody else on Tour could match either his short game or his ability to put long approach shots close to the hole consistently. And only Jack has more success in the entire modern history of the game.

So two guys share a dominant long-approach-shot ability and those same two guys stand alone atop the career-achievement ladder EVEN THOUGH ONE HAD A GREAT SHORT GAME AND OTHER A LACKLUSTER SHORT GAME.

Funny how when the conventional wisdom actually matches Broadie's conclusions nobody can quite remember the conventional wisdom. Hell, he's only "discovered" what everybody said they knew all along about the secret to Jack's and Tiger's success!

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The misperception of the short game.
« Reply #303 on: May 07, 2014, 09:45:10 PM »
Jeff,
I don't disagree regarding Jack and Tiger.  I based my thoughts for this thread on defining great players as the players of the top tours, PGA, Web.com and European Tours.  Some are long and some are short and some are shorter. but what got them on those tours vs. players in their hometowns and college teams with the same length and ball striking was their exceptional short games.  Sure the dominant player will have it all when they dominate.  JMO
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The misperception of the short game.
« Reply #304 on: July 20, 2014, 08:34:37 PM »
I think this might have been proven today.... :)
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"