Augusta National Golf Club

[Tim Liddy]

I offer the following quote from Phil Mickelson in his discussion about playing in the Masters. “For the past six or seven years, I have not had a shot between 90 and 130 yards”. He removes his sand wedge and gap wedge when he plays in The Masters because he does not need them. Is this an acceptable standard for one of our most highly rated golf courses?

[Tom_Doak]

Tim:

I don't know that there is any use to the old measuring stick of "hitting every club in your bag" now that guys are hitting short irons and wedges for their approaches most of the time.  How different is your swing with a gap wedge than with a 9-iron?

The more interesting thing to me is that to produce this situation, where there's a 40-yard no-fly zone in Phil's approach shots, the course has a much larger gap in golf holes ... #3 is 340 yards, and then there's a 100-yard gap to the next shortest par-4, at 440.

[Howard Riefs]

“For the past six or seven years, I have not had a shot between 90 and 130 yards”. 

That streak ended this year. In round one, he dumped his 3rd shot on #15 into the water. His drop was between 90 and 130 yards.

 

[Gib_Papazian]

Phil is huge long to begin with and I am not sure what clubs a top PGA Tour pro hits or doesn't hit is relevant to anything. Mortals like me do course evaluations - from the perspective and standpoint of, well, mortals. What constitutes an "acceptable standard" for a major championship vs. normal play are two different subjects.

If the yardage gap ever becomes an issue, all Augusta need do is move the tees forward on 11, 14 and 17, where they were before. Abracadabra, Phil (and Bubba) magically have a few shots between 90-130 yards.

That stated, course setups for the Masters and US Open are so far afield of what (even) a garden variety scratch player can survive, it ought to have its own category. These guys are hitting balls with sticks, but the difference between golf as we know it and what they are playing is from here to Neptune.
     

 

[JESII]

I'm sorry but this is simply not an Augusta issue...this is a Mickelson issue.

He is so talented that he's simply 100% confident he'll be able to take a little off the longer club or hit the shorter club harder when he gets a 110 shot.

That said, and noting the 100 yard gap in par 4 distances, I'd disagree with Tom Doak's suggestion that hitting every club in ones bag is a useless measuring stick. Is it a pass fail test where if a certain player doesn't use every/most club(s) in their bag the course is no good? Not at all! Just that this is another way for someone to reflect on a course.

[Peter Pallotta]

Jim -

I was thinking about this in general during my first round of the season (9 holes) on Saturday. My clubs were clanging away in my bag as I walked along, and I looked down at those carefully made old Hogan blades, 3-E, and the quality of the Cleveland 52 and 56 degree wedges, and the engineering of an old Ping Anser putter, and the beauty of a Tom Watson Ram persimmon 5 wood I still carry, and at the moment it seemed so obvious that these were 'the tools of the trade', each one (once upon a time) created to serve a specific purpose, and to be used during a round (just like a woodworker needs the hammer and different chisels and saws and a range of sandpapers).

There is something very satisfying about using/having to use "every club in the bag", and once upon a time -- even at Augusta during the Masters -- good players and mediocre ones alike did in fact have to use most clubs (even if Ben Hogan took the 7 iron out because there were no 7 iron shots!). But those were the days when a "9" meant one thing and a "7" meant something much different and an "E" something else again, and when a 40 yard gap (between say 90 and 130 yards) was actually a gap.

All this has not much to do with Augusta "architecturally" -- after all, when a "wedge" is all the modern player needs from 0 to 150 yards, what difference does a gap of 40 yards actually make? But some of the "charm" of having a full set of clubs and every one of them important and created to fill a real need - well, that charm is missing now for the good golfer. Strangely, and for whatever combination of reasons, it seems gone for a hack like me too.

On the course I played (6400 yards or so), I don't think I had to use even once my 3 iron or 4 iron or 5 iron; and, while I used 6 iron once or twice and my 7 and 8 irons quite a bit, I don't remember having to use my 9 iron or my E wedge, just my 52 degree (and 56 for a bunker shot or two); and I used my 3 wood twice, my 5 wood not once, and my driver off all but one Par 4/5.

In short, an average golfer like me could've played this 6400 yard course carrying only Driver, 7 iron, 52 degree wedge and a putter. I don't know what that "says" about the architecture, but somehow it's kind of a drag.

Peter

[JMEvensky]

I don't know Peter,my guess is that guys in Hogan's era were more likely to ignore stock,practice tee yardages on their irons than current PGAT players. I'm sure that almost all of today's players can hit any iron from a 3 to a PW for a 150 yard shot--it's just that I think it's done less today.

Tom Watson persimmon 5 wood?

[Peter Pallotta]

Jeff - yes on the 5 wood, and not for any reasons of charm/nostalgia. For some reason, I hit it really well, and can draw it and fade it (well, sort of, you know) and it seems to go just as far as the hybrid 2 irons or modern 5 woods that I've tried and that I can't hit as well.

On your other point, yes, probably the Jimmy Demaret's of the world could've played an entire round with just a 1 iron, playing all kinds of shots. But I imagine the run of the mill tour pro in the 60s plodded along and had to hit a lot of different clubs depending on the conditions and how well he controlled/hit his driver.

Peter

[Patrick_Mucci]

I offer the following quote from Phil Mickelson in his discussion about playing in the Masters.

“For the past six or seven years, I have not had a shot between 90 and 130 yards”.

I think his memory is failing him.
As a New York sportscaster would say, "Let's go to the tape"

He removes his sand wedge and gap wedge when he plays in The Masters because he does not need them.

Today, with so many wedges, you don't know how many wedges he carries and what degrees they are.
And, you don't know the distance he typically hits each club.

Is this an acceptable standard for one of our most highly rated golf courses?

I think the question is flawed because the premise is based on an incomplete fact base.

I think another question reveals more about the game.
When was the last time he used a 2, 3, or 4-iron on a par 4 ?  

[Bill_McBride]

I offer the following quote from Phil Mickelson in his discussion about playing in the Masters.

“For the past six or seven years, I have not had a shot between 90 and 130 yards”.

I think his memory is failing him.
As a New York sportscaster would say, "Let's go to the tape"

He removes his sand wedge and gap wedge when he plays in The Masters because he does not need them.

Today, with so many wedges, you don't know how many wedges he carries and what degrees they are.
And, you don't know the distance he typically hits each club.

Is this an acceptable standard for one of our most highly rated golf courses?

I think the question is flawed because the premise is based on an incomplete fact base.

I think another question reveals more about the game.
When was the last time he used a 2, 3, or 4-iron on a par 4 ?  

3rd tee?

[Bill Brightly]

To be clear, he said that he has two "free clubs" meaning that he does not expect to need them for second shots on par 4's, and he can get very close on all of the par 5's. He obviously carries a 60 degree wedge and relies on that for greenside bunkers. He said he would put his 64 degree in the bag, and probably either his 56 or 52 degree wedge because he would not play with 13 clubs. I have no doubt that he can make his PW go as short as needed.

But what I "heard" him say way the mildest and most polite criticism of the "Tiger-proofing" of the course. I think he disagrees with adding length for the sake of adding length, and removed some of the strategy.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I offer the following quote from Phil Mickelson in his discussion about playing in the Masters.

“For the past six or seven years, I have not had a shot between 90 and 130 yards”.

I think his memory is failing him.
As a New York sportscaster would say, "Let's go to the tape"

He removes his sand wedge and gap wedge when he plays in The Masters because he does not need them.

Today, with so many wedges, you don't know how many wedges he carries and what degrees they are.
And, you don't know the distance he typically hits each club.

Is this an acceptable standard for one of our most highly rated golf courses?

I think the question is flawed because the premise is based on an incomplete fact base.

I think another question reveals more about the game.
When was the last time he used a 2, 3, or 4-iron on a par 4 ?  

3rd tee?

On his approach you moron  

[noonan]

Never heard Jimmy Demaret's name the entire telecast.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tim

Sunningdale is similar. There are no wedge shots  - shots between 90 and 120 yards - on the Old. Not for normal hitters anyway.

[Mark Bourgeois]

I'm sorry but this is simply not an Augusta issue...this is a Mickelson issue.

Apology accepted.

Peter, what does it say about the architecture of a course when I hit every club in the bag...on one hole?

[Peter Pallotta]

MB -

It's pretty clear that 'the architecture doesn't suit your game' and that 'the course doesn't fit your eye'. 

Yes, that's it I think - precisely.

PJP

[Matthew Mollica]

Never heard Jimmy Demaret's name the entire telecast.

Jerry - I've long wondered what Demaret and Snead did to result in the absence of any meaningful reference to them during The Masters.

MM

[JESII]

Tim

Sunningdale is similar. There are no wedge shots  - shots between 90 and 120 yards - on the Old. Not for normal hitters anyway.

Mike,

Can this possibly be true across hard and soft conditions, warm and cool weather, front and back hole locations???

Seems impossible to me.

Regarding Mickelson, would he then manage his chip out yardages to avoid this window? Not trying to pick on his driving, but everyone chips out sometimes...

[JESII]

Jim -

In short, an average golfer like me could've played this 6400 yard course carrying only Driver, 7 iron, 52 degree wedge and a putter. I don't know what that "says" about the architecture, but somehow it's kind of a drag.

Peter

I don't know Peter, some of my favorite golf memories are going out for a few holes at dusk with just my 6 iron to see how many pars I could make. Other times, and much more often, I would leave the even or odd irons and one wood in the locker and play full regular matches. For me, this is where a great deal of learning about the course (and golf in general) evolved.

Think about your comment posted above...hitting that 7 iron from 6 iron or 8 iron distance is some of the most fun golf can be! Hitting it from 3 iron distance...not so much.

Expanding that to trying to shoot a score and I'll go with Sean Arble's suggestion of reducing the number of clubs allowed in a set to 8, I'd even go with 10!

I still have a hard time reconciling this as an Augusta issue...even with their 100 yard gap between the 3rd hole and the next shortest par 4. In various weather conditions those holes can play 50 or 75 yards different than the posted number.

[Matthew Petersen]

Tim

Sunningdale is similar. There are no wedge shots  - shots between 90 and 120 yards - on the Old. Not for normal hitters anyway.

Mike,

Can this possibly be true across hard and soft conditions, warm and cool weather, front and back hole locations???

Seems impossible to me.

Regarding Mickelson, would he then manage his chip out yardages to avoid this window? Not trying to pick on his driving, but everyone chips out sometimes...

I would guess given his penchant for risk-taking, ability to bend the ball, and ability in general that when he's in the trees at Augusta, Phil is still getting it up by the green, or trying to.

As someone mentioned earlier, this year he was in the trees and had to lay up on 15. However, even then, if you knock it down very close to the water, you can certainly have less than 90 yards. That may have been what he did (he dumped his third in the pond, however).

[Mike_Clayton]

Jim,

It's true Sunningdale can get pretty bouncy in a dry summer - but all things being equal you are never going to hit a wedge into 1,2,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,12,13,14,15,16, 17 (unless you hit driver from the tee) or 18. That leaves 3 and 11 and almost always you can drive it within 50 yards of those greens.

How did I figure it out? One day my caddie took my clubs home and left the wedge in the room. We never noticed until the end of the round when he confessed.

[David_Elvins]

Clayts,

What club would you hit off the tee on 11?  I found it quite an awkward tee shot.

You never ht wedge into 7?

As for Augusta, surely eliminating the 110 yard shot form professional golf is a great thing.  Is there a more boring way for pros to play than laying up to 100 yards and then sticking a wedge with little roll or bounce.

[Mike_Clayton]

Dave

11 was usually a 2 iron just left of the pines on the corner - and a pitch from under 70 yards.
I never was close to hitting wedge into 7. You always had to play it up short of the band of heather crossing the fairway where a driver would go. It was normally 3 wood, and then a 7 or 8 iron from memory.
5 and 6 might have been wedges if not for the hazards. 6 keeps its length by making everyone lay-up short of the heather and the water keeps most back at 5.

[Bill Brightly]

Clayts,



As for Augusta, surely eliminating the 110 yard shot form professional golf is a great thing.  Is there a more boring way for pros to play than laying up to 100 yards and then sticking a wedge with little roll or bounce.

David, to play Devil's advocate, I disagree that ELIMINATING the 110 yard shot for professionals is a great thing. I certainly don't want to see a series of driver-wedge holes, but I like  a couple of short par 4's. Because if they can "lay up" to 100, that means they can choose to hit driver and get closer. I like it when pros have to think...

[Bill_McBride]

I offer the following quote from Phil Mickelson in his discussion about playing in the Masters.

“For the past six or seven years, I have not had a shot between 90 and 130 yards”.

I think his memory is failing him.
As a New York sportscaster would say, "Let's go to the tape"

He removes his sand wedge and gap wedge when he plays in The Masters because he does not need them.

Today, with so many wedges, you don't know how many wedges he carries and what degrees they are.
And, you don't know the distance he typically hits each club.

Is this an acceptable standard for one of our most highly rated golf courses?

I think the question is flawed because the premise is based on an incomplete fact base.

I think another question reveals more about the game.
When was the last time he used a 2, 3, or 4-iron on a par 4 ?  

3rd tee?

On his approach you moron  

Try to be more definitive, you moron.  That's not what was asked.