Who likes Harbor Town?

[Jaeger Kovich]

I have only played it once, but it seems like the course's influence and place on the architectural timeline has outlasted its greatness in design. I struggled to embrace the narrowness, until totally committing to try and bend shots around the trees. The putting surfaces are mostly flat and forgettable. The course is all about navigating to the green, as its mostly automatic 2-putt. The aesthetics is mostly bizarre looking hazards and ugly vacation homes, until the last 3 holes where it gets quite nice.

It is still a pretty interesting golf course, just not one of Pete Dye's best.

[jeffwarne]

never liked it due to lack of variety and abysmal pace of play.
Quite  a few good holes, just too many similar.

Long Cove much better while having a few of the same good qualities-far more variety

[Kevin_D]

What's a bazaar hazard? Do you have to haggle your way out of it or something? 

[Terry Lavin]

I like it. Very sentimental fan of its many charms.

[Jaeger Kovich]

What's a bazaar hazard? Do you have to haggle your way out of it or something? 

HA! Thats a pretty funny slip

[Jordan Standefer]

Count me as someone who likes it.

I enjoyed the routing, the par 3s, the short par 4s, and 15-18.  It can be tight, but I think that is offset by the fact that you'll be hitting less than driver on many holes.

I'd be happy to go back.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I would definitely like to play Harbor Town again, but its probably not worth it at the full peak-season rate I don't think.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Played it three times and loved it. I thought it had a very good mix of holes, yes 16 to 18 are memorable but there are others that are good. I remember hitting a nice drive on nine and had a difficult second to a tightly tucked hole location. I would go back in a heartbeat.

[Chris Mavros]

I'm on the like it list.  Every feature does exactly what it was intended without appearing contrived.  It makes you strategize and plot, but gives you an opportunity to recover from mis hits most of the time instead of outright penalizing.  It's is a very well done example of Dye's design philosophy, which is why it will remain so highly regarded as course design evolves.

[Nigel Islam]

I was actually thinking today that the par 3s are some of Dye's best. 18 is unique, as are 13 and 16. 8 is a terrific hole. Crooked Stick and Harbor Town were the first two very good courses I played. Harbor Town has aged much better in my memory.

[Patrick_Mucci]

never liked it due to lack of variety and abysmal pace of play.

Jeff,

Then, Pebble Beach and Spyglass Hill must not be high on your list.

I don't see what pace of play has to do with architectural merit.
Please explain that to us

Quite  a few good holes, just too many similar.

Long Cove much better while having a few of the same good qualities-far more variety

[Patrick_Mucci]

I have only played it once, but it seems like the course's influence and place on the architectural timeline has outlasted its greatness in design. I struggled to embrace the narrowness, until totally committing to try and bend shots around the trees. The putting surfaces are mostly flat and forgettable. The course is all about navigating to the green, as its mostly automatic 2-putt. The aesthetics is mostly bizarre looking hazards and ugly vacation homes, until the last 3 holes where it gets quite nice.

It is still a pretty interesting golf course, just not one of Pete Dye's best.

Jaeger,

Harbor Town represents some revolutionary design concepts for Pete Dye and GCA in America circa the late 1960's.
One has to view the design of Harbor Town from the perspective of what golf course design was like in the U.S. In the late 1960's.

You've played it more than me, but is a portion of the narrowness due to growth of the trees over 45 years ?

Ditto the houses.

Do we devalue LACC North because of the homes flanking the holes, even if one of them is one of my favorites ?
Do we devalue WFW, Merion and others due to the adjacent homes ?

Do you feel that the course is lacking in architectural merit or just overrated ?

[Matt MacIver]

I really like certain aspects of it - the need to shape shots after errant drives, the 3s, the last few holes - but for some reason I can't wrap my head around paying full freight to play it again.

My favorite feature is the scar bunker on 17, so small you can only play out one direction, regardless where the flag is.

I was also surprised to hear Nance say yesterday that at 75 yards, the 18th is the widest on Tour.

Overall I never though it was a tight course from an OB or hazard perspective. I don't think I lost many balls. It's the oaks and the bunkers that get you, in good ways. And I though the houses were far enough back I rarely noticed them.

[Bruce Wellmon]

Personally, I am morally outraged 18 doesn't finish at the clubhouse.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I have only played it once, but it seems like the course's influence and place on the architectural timeline has outlasted its greatness in design. I struggled to embrace the narrowness, until totally committing to try and bend shots around the trees. The putting surfaces are mostly flat and forgettable. The course is all about navigating to the green, as its mostly automatic 2-putt. The aesthetics is mostly bizarre looking hazards and ugly vacation homes, until the last 3 holes where it gets quite nice.

It is still a pretty interesting golf course, just not one of Pete Dye's best.

Jaeger,

Harbor Town represents some revolutionary design concepts for Pete Dye and GCA in America circa the late 1960's.
One has to view the design of Harbor Town from the perspective of what golf course design was like in the U.S. In the late 1960's.

You've played it more than me, but is a portion of the narrowness due to growth of the trees over 45 years ?

Ditto the houses.

Do we devalue LACC North because of the homes flanking the holes, even if one of them is one of my favorites ?
Do we devalue WFW, Merion and others due to the adjacent homes ?

Do you feel that the course is lacking in architectural merit or just overrated ?

I don't feel it lacks architectural merit, but it may currently be a little overrated because of its fame and historical importance.

There is no doubt it was/is a hugely important piece in the evolution of modern golf courses. That said, it was never meant to function as an extremely busy resort the way it does currently. Nobody ever thought it would become so popular and demand so many rounds per year, thus the size of the greens and narrowness from ever growing tree canopy do not allow it to function as well as many visitors hope.

The thing about the houses is, they are virtually all the same. All the houses are of the same style and era. Basically generic, pre-fab stuff that is everywhere in the area. The difference between that and LACC, WF or St. George's Hill couldn't be further.

[Tim Liddy]

Harbour Town Lessons in Golf Course Architecture

1. The routing of a golf course, pacing, gradually developing and creating excitement at the finish. It reminds me of Frank Lloyd Wright’s concept of ‘compress and release’. Low entrance doorway into a large living room. The first 15 - 1/2 golf holes at Harbour Town are compressed into the trees with the final 2 -1/2 holes ‘released’ out with long views of Calibogue Sound - Extraordinary.
2. The importance of scale in the golf course features. The small greens fit the small scale of the site. The smallish greens also allow the green-side bunkers which weave in and out of trees to fit the green scale (Big greens would make the bunkers look too small and out of proportion).
3. The development of the first waste bunker on golf hole #16 , although has been changed into a formal bunker.
4. The great variety of various size and shapes of bunkers to provide unique qualities to each golf hole, from extremely small pot bunkers to extremely large waste bunkers and everything between.
5. The best set of par 3’s on any golf course, as judged by many.
More later if interested, got to go.

[Jason Topp]

Watching on television, it is so different from what you see every other week on the PGA Tour.

The one time I played it, I found it very enjoyable.  The fairways were wider than I expected but the size of the trees meant that just because you were in the fairway there was no guarantee you could hit the green. 

It must be the most enjoyable walk around a course filled with housing that exists.

[William_G]

I like Harbor Town.

The tee shot is very important there, no doubt.

Golfers who don't hit it straight off the tee are in for no fun.

The holes are all memorable and the finish out by the water is fantastic....very similar to PB in that although you finish at the resort you don't finish near the first tee.

Speed of play can be an issue here as it is a resort with folks paying $300 and then playing their buddies for an important $5 Nassau.

The scale is small when compared to the likes of other famous private courses...yet when you take in the small scale and the amount of other things at the resort going on around you, it's a fun walk.

The stretch from 9-18 is fantastic is most memorable to me with each hole asking you to hit a shot and not just bombing a driver out there.

[Thomas Dai]

Out of curiosity, what would it cost a visitor to play 18-holes at Harbor Town?
atb

[Eric Smith]

Harbour Town is a treasure. It is cool because it is different than everything else down there. The greens are so small you have to be good with your wedge in order to score. Definitely helps having that world class finish from 16-18. Also has one the coolest sets of par 3's I know. I would include 8 in that marvelous stretch, Gray. And those vacation homes mentioned in the o.p. I'm happy just fine with them. Great memories. The folks out on their back porches are surely enjoying their Easter Sunday. Fewer places in the world of golf I would rather be than today at Harbour Town Golf Links. Happy Easter.

[Jaeger Kovich]

I seem to prefer Dye's other 2 courses in the Low Country better. In 3 different decades he built Harbor Town (69), Long Cove (80's) and Kiawah Ocean (90's). I think his work in the area improved each time... Although Kiawah is clearly the best location, but still flat and with plenty of challenges.

[Nigel Islam]

I think its definitely in the consideration for top 100 US. GOLF actually has it on their top 100 world which might be a stretch. Happy Easter to you too Eric and everyone else! The weather seems to be turning for the better across the country too.

[William_G]

I seem to prefer Dye's other 2 courses in the Low Country better. In 3 different decades he built Harbor Town (69) Resort, Long Cove (80's) Private and Kiawah Ocean (90's) Ocean Front. I think his work in the area improved each time... Although Kiawah is clearly the best location, but still flat and with plenty of challenges.

no coincidence

[Tom_Doak]

1. The routing of a golf course, pacing, gradually developing and creating excitement at the finish. It reminds me of Frank Lloyd Wright’s concept of ‘compress and release’. Low entrance doorway into a large living room. The first 15 - 1/2 golf holes at Harbour Town are compressed into the trees with the final 2 -1/2 holes ‘released’ out with long views of Calibogue Sound - Extraordinary.

Except for "finishing on the water," which most architects would have done, I don't think this is so much the routing, as how the holes were developed based on the routing.  The property is not inherently dramatic, so where the holes become more dramatic [the par-3's, 9, 13] it is a function of design and construction rather than routing.

P.S.  It was not Mr. Dye who did the routing, but George Cobb, as Pete credits in his book.

[Greg Tallman]

Out of curiosity, what would it cost a visitor to play 18-holes at Harbor Town?
atb

Tomorrow's rate would be $292.40, fluctuates by season.