[Jud_T]

Granted we GCA nerds tend to look at things a bit differently.  We are so attuned to the minimalist aesthetic at this point that for some of us, me perhaps being the poster boy, anything else seems jarring, unnatural, and dated.  To the average viewer the LOOK of Augusta on TV is the cat's pajamas, and what they want their clubs to aspire to (at least until they get the monthly bill  ).  But I couldn't help thinking that those perfectly edged, rounded bunkers at the National just look dated stylistically now.  I know they're "fair", but for a course inspired by St. Andrews?  Is the good Dr. rolling over in his grave at the sight of those perfect geometrically shaped, groomed and edged beached white whales?  Perhaps if they are beginning to look dated aesthetically from a post-modern sensibility, this is the first chink in the armor for the Augusta Effect, not in and of itself a bad thing.  For reference, here's an old picture of 10 that I stole from Chris Buie.   If anyone has any other old bunker pics, please post them.  Discuss:

[Ryan Coles]

Not for me.

I think they now look a bit different. All the other high profile restorations seem to me to be cookie baking in terms of bunkers. Dated is not necessarily a bad thing. Faux looking bunkers that are new trying to look old look worse.

[Garland Bayley]

White bathtubs will never go out of style! But, then that is a statement about bathroom style not golf.

Yes, they look dated. They look like something that has lost its charm by lack of care in maintenance.

Bogey put up a thread to forestall ANGC criticism, so we seem not to have had much. I would far rather look at Old MacDonald than ANGC, because I prefer nature over the obvious work of man.

[Ryan Coles]

Does Old McDonald have any with the blown out distressed look with broken sleepers like at Castle Stuart?

All bunkers are created by man these days, aren't they?

[Garland Bayley]

...
All bunkers are created by man these days, aren't they?

Nope, the wind creates some at places like the sand hills and the pacific coast.

[Ryan Coles]

...
All bunkers are created by man these days, aren't they?

Nope, the wind creates some at places like the sand hills and the pacific coast.

How about Old McDonald as you referenced above?

[Jud_T]

Ryan,

Yes.  Old Mac has natural blowout bunkers including on the namesake Sahara 3rd.  Book a tee time ASAP...

[BHoover]

For reasons more than just the bunkering, I'd like to see the Masters played at Royal Melbourne.  Or perhaps more realistically, I'd like to see ANGC look and play a bit more like RM, including the bunkering.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jud,

You're forgetting something.

MAINTENANCE

How would you maintain the areas around those old bunkers.

Augusta isn't hard by the sea.
Augusta isn't in Mullen, NE
Augusta is in Augusta, GA

Why would you compare a ground or eye level photo with images taken from elevated platforms or blimps ?

Granted we GCA nerds tend to look at things a bit differently.  We are so attuned to the minimalist aesthetic at this point that for some of us, me being the poster boy, anything else seems jarring, unnatural, and dated.

As you PLAY the course, NOTHING looks "jarring, unnatural and dated"  That's solely your misconceived opinion based on elevated and aerial images. 

To the average viewer the LOOK of Augusta on TV is the cat's pajamas, and what they want their clubs to aspire to (at least until they get the monthly bill  ).  

What has a club member's monthly bill got to do with ANGC's bunkers ?

But I couldn't help thinking that those perfectly edged, rounded bunkers at the National just look dated stylistically now.  
I know they're "fair", but for a course inspired by St. Andrews?  

Again, your opinion is based, not upon the play of the course and how the golfer sees the course as he plays it, but from the views presented on TV from elevated and aerial cameras.

Is the good Dr. rolling over in his grave at the sight of those perfectly groomed and edged beached white whales?  

Is it your opinion that the bunkers at Merion, Pinehurst # 2 and other iconic clubs aren't perfectly groomed for tournaments ?

Perhaps if they are beginning to look dated aesthetically from a post-modern sensibility, this is the first chink in the armor for the Augusta Effect, not in and of itself a bad thing.

There is no "chink" in ANGC's armor, the only chink is in your mind. 

For reference, here's an old picture of 10 that I stole from Chris Buie.   If anyone has any other old bunker pics, please post them.  Discuss:

[Jud_T]

Pat,

I don't want to get into a pissing match about it.  No I haven't played the course. (if you're inviting me I'll happily keep an open mind  ) I have turned down tickets to the event several times due to work conflicts.  99.9% of the planet sees the course as it's presented on TV, regardless of how it looks on the ground from the player's eye.  You bring up a valid point about the fact that the bunkers are not indigenous and are therefore artificial anyway.  I'm merely raising an aesthetic question from a 2014 sensibility.  I'm not saying what's right or wrong, and am the first to admit that I have my own biases in this regard.  Are you denying the presence of the Augusta effect on the presentation and maintenance practices of numerous wannabe clubs?  I'm quite keen to see the Open(s) at Pinehurst and imagine that the presentation may present a rather stark contrast.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jud,

When I set foot onto the property my impression of ANGC changed dramatically from the perception I had derived from watching TV for decades.

I think most would agree with me.

Therefore, your premise might be flawed at it's core because you're putting forth your view based on what may be a misleading representation, that derived from camera views/angles.

Gib Papazian, whose intellect and architectural perceptions I respect, gained a flawed sense of the course and the bunkering from watching the telecast.

I think that sometimes we forget that when Billy Payne announces Arnie, Jack and Gary on the first tee, that it's SHOW TIME.
Yes, a major is being conducted, on the same course as last year, but, the networks are also hard at work presenting views not common to the golfer.  So you have to be careful as to judging what you see on TV as it's not always the same thing that the golfer sees as he trods the fairways.

Despite what many think, the folks at ANGC "get it".

Some of the best golfers on the planet are members there.

Those folks are steeped in golf.

ANGC's dilemma, like the USGA's has been the impact of high tech I&B on the play of the golf course.

Remember, they serve two masters, their membership and an annual major, and that's a very difficult and delicate balance.

They are by no means  perfect, but, they do adapt to keep the course relevant in terms of challenging the best golfers in the world.

How did that work out for Prestwick, a course that I love, a course that I have a special attachment to.

If you haven't changed in the last 80, 90 or 100 years, it's almost impossible to remain relevant in terms of tournament golf at the highest level and in terms of presenting an enjoyable challenge for your members and guests.

Too often ANGC is an unjustifiable target for those who don't consider all of the factors, influences and circumstances.

Hope that helps

[Jud_T]

Pat,

Point taken.  I'm certainly cognizant of the various forces that the club must be juggling to serve their various, ahem, Masters.  Aside from balls rolling consistently and fairly into the bunkers and the resultant lies and playing characteristics therein, however, I'm not sure how the blatantly unnatural shapes of them, diamond-cutter crisp edging or blinding "so white it makes Honey Boo Boo look black" color of the sand have much of anything to do with the challenge faced by the best players in the game.  

[Bart Bradley]

Pat:

I have been blown away by all that you have contributed to the website about Augusta over the last few days.  Outstanding stuff.

I went to Augusta for the first time this year and most everything you have said about the place (elevated TV views, in particular) has rung true to me.  I would say, however, that I do think that the bunkering style, even from ground level, could be more attractive and more dramatic.  I agreed entirely with your comments that the MacK bunker does not look jarring or out of place on the property.  I do think the bunker tie-ins behind 13 look odd, I don't see a reason for the bunker on the left at 16 and I do think that other options for bunker appearance could add even more visual drama than the current mundane shapes.  I did think, as I walked around, "I wonder what this place would look like if all the bunkers were built to mimic MacK bunkers?"

Everyone besides Pat, TV flattens the course in an unbelievable fashion and compresses the open rolling landscape of the place.   It completely fails to give you any sense of the routing or how the holes connect to each other and flow over the property.   The green contours, although they look fairly significant on TV, are much greater than you can dream until you see them in person.  14, 5, 3 are just AWE-inspiring greens.

Of the greatest courses I have seen or played, I would not rank Augusta incredibly high on bunker-aesthetics.  Admittedly, that has little-no effect on the playing characteristics of the course.  The course is generally not overbunkered...something unusual for major championship venues.

Pat, thanks again for all of your great insights on Augusta.

Bart

[Bradley Anderson]

Augusta has much more elevation change than how it appears on television and the green pads are enormous. So I think the bunker style they have now works very well with the terrain and scale of the greens.

The only bunker that has a lot of edginess to it is the fairway bunker on 10 and oddly enough that one might have the least visual appeal of any bunker on the course. So I wonder if a serrated or irregular edge bunker wouldn't just be way too busy for that golf course?

In either case whatever it is they doing there they do it as well of better than anyone else. The whole place just has a consistent motif and feel to it.

[Sean_A]

Augusta's bunkers are not a look I admire, but that is small beer compared to the bunkers not being allowed to over run the design.  I am very impressed by the depth of the bunkers as well, but the quiet # of bunkers allowing the hills, slopes and contours to be the dominant factors of the design is most impressive.  So no, I don't worry about the aesthetics.

Ciao

[Bradley Anderson]

One other thing that is striking about the golf course is the smoothness of the fairways. It's like the entire property has been land leveled. Even though there is a lot of elevation change the grades are very gradual. If the bunker style changed you would probably have to break up the monotony of the long gradual grades all around the bunkers.

[Grant Saunders]

Augusta has much more elevation change than how it appears on television and the green pads are enormous. So I think the bunker style they have now works very well with the terrain and scale of the greens.

The only bunker that has a lot of edginess to it is the fairway bunker on 10 and oddly enough that one might have the least visual appeal of any bunker on the course. So I wonder if a serrated or irregular edge bunker wouldn't just be way too busy for that golf course?

In either case whatever it is they doing there they do it as well of better than anyone else. The whole place just has a consistent motif and feel to it.

Bradley

I agree 100% with what you are saying.

The bunker shape and styling is cohesive with the context of the course and experience as a whole.

Here is a link to a thread I started a while back discussing similar thoughts:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55423.msg1287497.html#msg1287497

[Garland Bayley]

...
All bunkers are created by man these days, aren't they?

Nope, the wind creates some at places like the sand hills and the pacific coast.

How about Old McDonald as you referenced above?

Last I checked Old MacDonald was on the pacific coast.

[Ryan Coles]

...
All bunkers are created by man these days, aren't they?

Nope, the wind creates some at places like the sand hills and the pacific coast.

How about Old McDonald as you referenced above?

Last I checked Old MacDonald was on the pacific coast.

Genuinely interested to see a picture of the non man made bunkers at Old Macdonald. Do they play as waste areas or hazards?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

Point taken.  I'm certainly cognizant of the various forces that the club must be juggling to serve their various, ahem, Masters.  Aside from balls rolling consistently and fairly into the bunkers and the resultant lies and playing characteristics therein, however,

I'm not sure how the blatantly unnatural shapes of them,

What bunker, when viewed from the golfer's eye, has a "blatantly unnatural shape" to it ?

diamond-cutter crisp edging

I don't think it's any more crisp than dozens of other courses.
And again, to whom is it crisp looking, the golfer as he walks the fairways, or the viewer looking down from a tower ?


or blinding "so white it makes Honey Boo Boo look black" color of the sand have much of anything to do with the challenge faced by the best players in the game.

The color of the sand make for a great contrast to the green grass to the television viewer. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Augusta's bunkers are not a look I admire, but that is small beer compared to the bunkers not being allowed to over run the design.  I am very impressed by the depth of the bunkers as well, but the quiet # of bunkers allowing the hills, slopes and contours to be the dominant factors of the design is most impressive.  So no, I don't worry about the aesthetics.

Sean,

Agree.

With 8 of the par 4's and par 5's NOT having a fairway bunker in the DZ, bunkers certainly aren't overused.

Ditto NO bunkers at the 8th and 14th green.

Bunkers are used sparingly and I don't find any distortion created by bunkers in the aethetics

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

...
All bunkers are created by man these days, aren't they?

Nope, the wind creates some at places like the sand hills and the pacific coast.

How about Old McDonald as you referenced above?

Last I checked Old MacDonald was on the pacific coast.

Genuinely interested to see a picture of the non man made bunkers at Old Macdonald. Do they play as waste areas or hazards?

Search function on blowout MacDonald found this for me immediately.

[Ryan Coles]

Many thanks.

Do they play as waste areas or hazards?

[Garland Bayley]

Many thanks.

Do they play as waste areas or hazards?

Never been in one, so never tried to ascertain the answer to that question.

[Steve Lapper]

Augusta's bunkers are not a look I admire, but that is small beer compared to the bunkers not being allowed to over run the design.  I am very impressed by the depth of the bunkers as well, but the quiet # of bunkers allowing the hills, slopes and contours to be the dominant factors of the design is most impressive.  So no, I don't worry about the aesthetics.

Sean,

Agree.

With 8 of the par 4's and par 5's NOT having a fairway bunker in the DZ, bunkers certainly aren't overused.

Ditto NO bunkers at the 8th and 14th green.

Bunkers are used sparingly and I don't find any distortion created by bunkers in the aethetics

Ciao

I was there yesterday and today. The aesthetic and sensibility of the existing bunkers is a unique look and style that is presented slightly more naturally at certain Sand Belt courses down under (specifically RM, KH, Commonwealth and Victoria). Of course they are MacKenzie style with construction and finish assistance by Russell and Morcom.

While it's not foolish to question the regular bastardization of historically scraggy-shaped sand hazards, ANGC's still carry the razor-sharp lines and majestic visuals that frame and help camouflage the wild undulations of the greens they protect. They lay elegantly, sight strategically and play beautifully onto the property. Pat is 100% right when he describes how natural they feel on the land.  (hate saying that ) Having not been on the property for nearly three decades, I was instantly awed to be back and see just how "smart" (to borrow a phrase from an Aussie friend) and "rightly in place" everything looked. ANGC deserves the architectual accolades it gets as R. Tyre Jones "homage" to St. Andrews.

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